Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA22856 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:10:58 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:06:32 -0800 Message-Id: <200201160106.g0G16WH11160@mail25.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [126.96.36.199] From: "Joe Dees" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Modes of transmission Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> Re: Modes of transmissionDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:33:02 -0500
> "Wade T. Smith" <email@example.com> "memetics list" <firstname.lastname@example.org>Reply-To: email@example.com
>On 01/15/02 08:32, Ray Recchia said this-
>>As I stated earlier I am not labelling memes by their modes of
>I ain't either. I was trying to answer for Joe, probably inaccurately.
>I'll demur to him.
>>the use of language to transmit memes
>>which regardless of whether spoken, signed, written, or typed.
>Staying true to meme-is-behavior-only, the meme itself is this use of
>language, and it is not regardless of whether spoken, signed, written, or
>typed. It _is_ spoken, signed, written, or typed. The success of the meme
>depends absolutely on the skill level of the usage and the presentation
>of this level, because the understanding of the meme depends upon these
>To beat on Robin's door, the meme is the information imparted during
>memetic behavior, measured in success of transmission by comparison of
The information can be and frequerntly is the same, regardless of differing modes of transmission or differing behaviors engaged in by the transmitter, and result in the recipient producing the same behavior. Whether a bank robber TELLS, in a shared language, a bank teller to hand him all the money in his drawer or whether he passes him a note written in a commonly understood symbol system 'saying' the same thing, the resultant behavior by the teller is highly likely to be the same. The meme is the meaning passed on, regardless of the mode of its passage or the behavior engaged in to so pass it. Memetics is irreduceable semantic. Even the behaviors that behaviorist memeticists study in their subjects are judged as to their intent or purpose or identity or meaning (WHAT they are, WHAT it is that they are doing), and meaningless behaviors (such as the random movements of newborn infants) are excluded as unassignable to a memetic referent (and in fact they are instinctual a!
nd internally sourced, not intentional or communicated, exploratory behaviors that correlate actions with perceptions and engage the infant in its environing world); this irresolveable contradiction between the actions and acknowledged intentions of the behaviorist memeticists and their behavior-not-meaning stance is lethally conclusive.
>I'm willing to say that exact behavioral replication is impossible, in an
>ideal sense, but that it is the memetic goal to see one's behavior
>If I try phrenologic behaviors in a hospital, I will be laughed at.
>(Well, depending on the hospital....) But if I try it in a newage book
>store, I will sell sessions, and if I write a book, copies of that book.
>I'm trying the meme-is-behavior-only behavior here and now. (A while ago,
>I tried the meme-is-artefact-only behavior.) To be open, I'm more
>invested in the behavior-only stance than I was in the artefact-only
>stance, mostly because I didn't like the staticness of artefacts, and the
>fact that the actual behavior was in a way dismissed in that stance, and
>I didn't know what to do with performance art, among other things....
>But I like thinking of memes as the behavioral products of memetically
>directed cultural activity. So, I'm debating on that side of the podium
>But, yes, memes as externally perceptible behaviors, absolutely. Like
>that car that comes forth from the factory, but is not present inside of
>it, memes are delivered. The factory (culture/mind) is the memeplex. The
>meme is its product. Artefacts are echoes of the memetic behavior.
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
Looking for a book? Want a deal? No problem AddALL!
http://www.addall.com compares book price at 41 online stores.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Jan 16 2002 - 01:18:48 GMT