Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id JAA20995 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:25:58 GMT Message-Id: <email@example.com> X-Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:19:24 -0500 To: email@example.com From: Ray Recchia <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception In-Reply-To: <40BB8918-0984-11D6-8D58-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> References: <200201150530.g0F5UtY24804@mail11.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
At 01:51 AM 1/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 12:30 , Joe Dees wrote:
>>I hold the "the scientific method is a valid investigatory tool for
>>understanding our world" meme. Even when I am completely still, it
>>remains in my mind, and may be decoded into any number of different
>>behaviors, depending upon the object of study, which share this common
>>principle. The behaviors (plural) are examples of how their common
>>motivating meme may be expressed, and it may be expressed in a plethora
>>of related, but nevertheless differing ways.
>You cannot show me any portion of this motivation without behaving in some
>manner to show me. There is no 'may'.
>Your behavior is the only meme. And I might, or might not, arrive at _any_
>sort of memetic understanding about it, unless I attempt my own behavior.
>Whatever expression you decide to use, what you _think_ you are doing
>does, yes, determine, to a degree, but not totally, what your behavior is.
>(What you meant to express is not always what you end up expressing,
>unless your skill level is very high.)
>I personally like the scientific method- my understanding of it is
>pleasant to me- and I might just understand, and attempt to replicate,
>almost all of your behavior, maybe even all of it.
>But, I might be a person who hates the scientific method, and I will then
>reject any attempt at replicating your behavior, and, if I am the only
>person you show your behavior to, your meme dissipates.
>There is no evidence of your motivation, and no expression of it, without
>a behavior on your part. If you are lucky and skillful, an artefact is
>expressed, and some viable culture is available to present it within,
>where it enjoys a sustaining existence. (Not a cargo culture, for
>instance, where there is no reference for understanding what you are
>expressing, and therefore no possibility of replicating behavior, or
>Whether you think you hold something in your mind that motivates you or
>not is irrelevant to the memetic progress your idea will make. Indeed, it
>is quite possible that I will attempt a behavior that is entirely at odds
>with your motivation. Your behavior is all that is memetic. I will only
>see what I will see- from my own vantage.
Please demonstrate the behavior associated with the meme "The Earth
revolves around the Sun." In fact that there are a variety of behaviors
associated with it that can also be associated with a number of other
memes. "The Earth revolves around the Sun" exists as a meme and
undoubtedly thousands of teachers in schools around the planet today will
be determining with a fair degree of accuracy whether or not their students
have acquired it.
How do you know whether someone has a meme or not? You ask them.
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