Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA12203 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:53:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [184.108.40.206] From: "Scott Chase" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:48:39 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F2169y3jVON3sov5uVY00013e84@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2002 03:48:39.0563 (UTC) FILETIME=[056EEDB0:01C19B1C] Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>From: "Richard Brodie" <email@example.com>
>Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:19:36 -0800
> >>So we don't have to worry about Muslim children being taught that the
> >>highest goal in life is to kill themselves in an attack on Americans?
><<If the kids use these memes for that purpose, then, yes you hae to worry
>about them. But the memes themselves can be used for other purposes, such
>as defending the faith in other ways. The teachers are using the memes to
>attack Americans. The Taliban used basically the same memes to attack
>Afghans. The memes themselves are not anti-American.>>
>Please explain how the meme "the highest goal in life is to kill yourself
>an attack on Americans" is not anti-American.
Muslim is a general category.
There are the more rabid Islamicists who wage jihad against the "Great
Satan" or other infidels. The extremist factions have anti-USian and
anti-Israeli bents. bin Laden has taken the cake with his fatwas against the
US and his terrorist network al-Qaeda is waging jihad on the US. These
factions are about as anti-USian as it gets.
The Taliban (not necessarily to be conflated with al-Qaeda) were a group of
religous students who set out to change the tide in Afghanistan and to tame
the unruly mujahideen from the war on the Soviets. They intepreted Islam in
a very fundamentalist manner, much more so than the more moderate and
modernist types living in some of the cities in Afghanistan that the Taliban
overran and imposed their mindset. The taliban wasn't anti-American *per
se*. They were supposedly gonna stem the flow of opium which was a
possibility which made U.S. policymakers quite happy. They were also courted
by a couple oil interests (IIRC Unocal and Argentina's Bridas), because
there was a plan for an oil pipeline through Afghanistan and the Taliban was
a big factor in stability.
Now since the Taliban have harbored bin Laden and his "Arab Afghans", the
Taliban are closely associated with al Qaeda, yet I'd assume distinct still.
Besides the harboring of terrorists and their training camps the Taliban
also has a very extreme interpreation of Islam and Sharia which is a
throwback and should be thrown out in this modern world. The misogyny alone
is enough to make one turn away in disgust.
There are other streams of Islam, much of which I don't have a grasp on. In
Afghanistan there are the Sufi mystic sect, for instance.
Within Islam is the perrenial Sunni/Shiite split which pulls Iran apart from
much of the Islamic world not to mention Iranians having some Persian
(versus Arab) roots. There's also the distinction between Islamicism and
Arabism. Also, strangely enough, isn't the "butcher of Baghad" a member of a
quite secular political party (the Ba'ath), though he may play the
Islamicist card whenever the need arises. I wonder how often Hussein kicks
back and reads the Koran or whether he believes in the divinity of Muhammed.
Isn't Turkey one of the most moderate states which have Muslim populations?
Turkey is more or less on friendlier terms with the US. Jordan is less
antagonistic towards Israel than many of the rest. Egypt, after Carter's
Camp David work has been also more friendly, though much extremism is
harbored within its borders and Sadat payed for moderation with his life.
Strangely Saudi Arabia is an ally, yet along with Pakistan's ISI, have
played a quite peculiar role in shaping Islamicism.
I'm not quite sure what to make of Iran. They are apparently not too
friendly with the Taliban. IIRC several years ago Iran had massed several
hundred thousand troops on the border with Afghanistan after some of her
diplomats were killed. Ironic isn't it considering they had taken some
US-ians hostage for 444 days. The recent arms bust en route to Palestinians
was apparently of Iranian origin, so that makes things more complicated,
especially if we are allied with Israel.
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