Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA10700 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:51:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [188.8.131.52] From: "Grant Callaghan" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: RE: playing at suicide Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:46:33 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <LAW2-F27ndg5oQJgAGe00009f32@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2002 15:46:33.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[25357E80:01C19AB7] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
Hi, Vincent. I think you'll find that in another post I said specifically
that "A scream is not a meme." Even a cry is not a meme until it is used
for a specific purpose. That doesn't happen immediately upon removal from
the womb. But babies do start attempting to manipulate their environment
very early in life. That's when random behavior becomes encoded as memes.
There is an article by V.S Ramachandran in Edge emagazine that discusses the
way memes are encoded in the brain. He has some pretty good research to
back it up.
Here is the first paragraph of his article:
"MIRROR NEURONS and imitation learning as the driving force behind "the
great leap forward" in human evolution
By V.S. Ramachandran
The discovery of mirror neurons in the frontal lobes of monkeys, and their
potential relevance to human brain evolution — which I speculate on in this
essay — is the single most important "unreported" (or at least,
unpublicized) story of the decade. I predict that mirror neurons will do for
psychology what DNA did for biology: they will provide a unifying framework
and help explain a host of mental abilities that have hitherto remained
mysterious and inaccessible to experiments."
>Show me a substantive difference in pronunciation of 'scream' amongst 3
>month old babies around the world and you've got a point. Similarly, show
>me a mother who instinctively knows whether the baby needs changing,
>or feeding from the sound of the scream alone and you've got a point.
>A baby's scream (as an adult's scream, if say they are scalded, or
>surprised) is a simple stimulus-response action, as straighforward as
> > ----------
> > From: Grant Callaghan
> > Reply To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:57 AM
> > To: email@example.com
> > Subject: Re: playing at suicide
> > >
> > >On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 03:38 , Grant Callaghan wrote:
> > >
> > >>If the baby didn't know it had the need, it wouldn't be able to
> > >>express it.
> > >
> > >Interesting take on instinctual responses. It certainly is able
> > >to 'express' pain with a scream, as you are.
> > >
> > >But, what do you know?
> > >
> > >And, what do you need that you screamed?
> > >
> > >I see a real difference between someone wanting, say, a new
> > >iMac, and a baby crying because its hungry.
> > >
> > >>She knows because the baby communicated the want or need to her.
> > >
> > >Is this response, crying, really a communication?
> > >
> > >- Wade
> > >
> > If you think a cry of pain is not a meme of communication, consider this
> > --
> > in America we say "ouch" or "ow" when we feel pain. In Japan, they say
> > "itai!" or "itai-o!" In China, they say "ai-o" and in the Philippines
> > say "apo!" or "apo-da!" In other words, in each culture they found a
> > different way to express pain. You'd think an instinctual response
> > elicit a more uniform way of expressing itself.
> > Grant
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
>charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
>be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
>in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
>person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
>and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
>message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
>immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
>for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other
>information in this message that do not relate to the official
>business of the University of Stirling shall be understood as neither
>given nor endorsed by it.
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
The means you use shape the ends you get.
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Jan 11 2002 - 15:57:52 GMT