Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA16309 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Wed, 12 Dec 2001 03:09:58 GMT Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:05:01 -0800 Message-Id: <200112120305.fBC351207637@mail18.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [18.104.22.168] From: "Joe Dees" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Definition please Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> <email@example.com> Re: Definition pleaseDate: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:27:34 +0100
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ray Recchia <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>> Personally, the thing that I have always had trouble with is how a
>> sophisticated organ like the brain has so much trouble adding two three
>> digit numbers together. I wonder more at how consciousness can be so
>> simple and slow when the brain appears to capable of so much more.
>> Joe Dees argues that in fact consciousness does arise because of increased
>> complexity. He has offered a hypothesis that humans are distinct from
>> other animals because our brains have reached a certain level of
>> which results in consciousness.
While a certain degree of complexity is necessary for consciousness simpliciter, my contention is more precisely represented by the assertion that our level of consciousness, that is, self-consciousness, is a result of our level of cortical complexity breaching the recursiveness threshhold.
>Some level of contradiction here !
>If you have trouble with how it is possible that the brain got problems
>something simple as two or three digits, and Joe in fact says that
>consciousness arose because of increased complexitiy, how can we hold on to
>a hypothesis that shows that when the information threshold is low, memes
>propagate better !?
Simpler is easier to deal with, even for complex systems. No contradiction there.
>If we take the " A memetic theory of Modernism" article at hand, as a guide,
>it says that low information contents are not, in their complexity, that
>ganised at all!
Of course not. Organization and complexity are not coupled; both simple and complex systems can either be more or less organized.
>Complexity is than been seen on another level_ it is not that all buildings
>look alike, have plain glass surfaces, express no creativity whatsoever and
>not adapt to any human need_ that there is no complexity !
>There is, but nomore as such.
>IMO, you have knocked here at a certain boundery.
>A conservative theme has always been that behind any thing, there has to
>be something else_ everything must have its meaning even how small it gets!
>A simple thing like adding two or three digits must hide something else far
>more complicated, it has to be !
>My point is, that it is maybe possible that the brain got troubles just
>of the low information contents of such numbers.
>Maybe it needs a low information threshold to get the info across, to get
>info tranferred from one place to another, but needs more for its properly
There is a book called THE NUMBER SENSE that maintains that we are not especially mathematically gifted as a result of our complexity-spawned self-consciousness, beyond being able to handle judgements as to whether which of two small quantities is greater. let us remember that computers were once termed number-crunchers, and it was in the mathematical domain that humans were first cybernetically surpassed.
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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