Re: Definition please

From: Dace (
Date: Tue Dec 04 2001 - 19:08:33 GMT

  • Next message: Wade Smith: "Re: Definition please"

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    Subject: Re: Definition please
    Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:08:33 -0800
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    > > > >A surgeon can locate your appendix. The same cannot be said of
    > > > >your mind.
    > > >
    > > > Where exactly is it located then?
    > >
    > >As far as the mind has location, that location is the brain's. For the
    > >mind, location is an accidental quality. At its essence, it is
    > >spaceless. We already know of one natural object-- time-- which has
    > >no definable spatial location, so it shouldn't come as a shock that
    > >another natural object is similarly nonlocal.
    > Since the brain and the mind are the same thing, I would have to say that
    > their occupation of the same space is necessity not accident.

    They're the same thing viewed from different perspectives. Mind is brain
    from the point of view of time, while brain is mind from the point of view
    of space. It's possible to distinguish heads from tails while recognizing
    that ultimately there's only one thing-- the coin.

    > I would not define 'time' as an object any more than I would define 'red',
    > or 'up' as objects, which also have no physical manifestations.

    Time is not a mere quality. Only the rate of its passage is subjective.
    Time itself is objective.

    > >The true "location" of mind is time. To have a mind is to act on the
    > >basis of memory in the pursuit of goals. You can take the space out of
    > >mind, but try removing the time and nothing's left.
    > Please offer a demonstration of how the space can be taken out of the
    > brain.

    Mind, not brain. You can't just subsitute "mind" with "brain." Mind can't
    be reduced to brain anymore than tails can be reduced to heads.

    > Memory is physically manifest in the brain.

    Says who? After 50 years of searching, neuroscientists have never isolated
    a memory in the brain. The only thing we know for sure is that mental
    functions, including recall, are *facilitated* by the brain. The idea that
    memory is contained in the brain is simply not a scientific assertion. It's
    just your own private belief, much like your belief in a sense organ in the
    brain that perceives mentality. Regardless of whether ten people or ten
    million people share in this belief, it's still just a belief.

    > By analogy, a software program would also exist in time, since it uses
    > memory in pursuit of goals.

    There's no memory-- in the sense of retention of the past-- in software.
    Artificial memory is not true memory. It's just stored information.
    Computers don't have goals. They function entirely according to
    materialistic cause and effect.

    > > > I believe that there is a lot of evidence to indicate that if certain
    > > > portions of the brain are removed cognitive and emotional function are
    > > > impaired. It is possible that 'anxiety' does not map to an exact region
    > > > of the brain, much in the same way that a program can be located in
    > > > different regions of computer's memory, but it is in the brain.
    > >
    > >Are *you* afraid, or is it your amygdala?
    > I am my amygdala (if that is how it is spelled). Just like I am my
    > molecules.

    In that case you don't exist. "Human being" is not a quality of molecules.
    You'll find no mention of mind or consciousness in chemistry textbooks.


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