Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA01658 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:27:24 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:22:28 -0800 Message-Id: <200112040722.fB47MSj23009@mail5.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [184.108.40.206] From: "Joe Dees" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: circular logic Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Dace" <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: circular logicDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:30:30 -0800
>> "Kenneth Van Oost"
>> >The famous giraffe- example of Lamarck is also a misunderstanding,
>> >Devillers and Chaline, Théorie de l'évolution, Paris, 1989 write, in a
>> >of circular logic, if the ancestors of the giraffe did got indeed a
>> >they had to be bigger in general than the giraffes of today. They too did
>> >reach (for) the leaves at the top of the tree.
>> >What in a sense dismisses any explanation as for Darwin as for Lamarck.
>> >The thing is, according to Devillers and Chaline, that not only the neck,
>> >also the frontlegs of the animals were getting longer. The result of both
>> >processes, forced upon them by the environment, is that the giraffe,
>> >standing up on its backlegs can now reach a hight of six meters ( 20
>> >All is due to habits. And the habit, more likely the need, of reaching
>> >highest leaves resulted in changes.
>> Nope. Shorter giraffes starved to death, taller ones (however 'taller'
>was manifested, by neck or legs or both) survived to reproduce, giving us a
>new spectrum of heights in succeeding generations; the shorter ones of these
>generations starved to death, too, and the median giraffe height rose as a
>consequence of this blind purposeless natural environmental selection of
>certain mutations over others, or of one end of that species'
>body-configuration spectrum over the other, in continuous iteration.
>That giraffes have long necks due to their desire to reach the highest
>leaves is what Gould refers to as "the tallest tale." It's a myth.
>Giraffes developed long necks because the males of the species establish
>mating supremacy by trying to knock each other down. Like goats they charge
>at each other, except that their weapon is the neck instead of calcified
>hair. They usually end up neck-wrestling and, inevitably, the longer neck
>Environment and the threat of starvation have nothing to do with it.
If you can provide a reference for this, I stand corrected of an incorrect assumption, and thank you for furthering my understanding of this phenomenon as direct social/sexual competition rather than food competition.
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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