Re: circular logic

From: Joe Dees (
Date: Tue Dec 04 2001 - 07:22:28 GMT

  • Next message: Joe Dees: "Re: circular logic"

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    Subject: Re: circular logic
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    > "Dace" <> <> Re: circular logicDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:30:30 -0800
    >Joe wrote:
    >> "Kenneth Van Oost"
    >> >The famous giraffe- example of Lamarck is also a misunderstanding,
    >> >Devillers and Chaline, Théorie de l'évolution, Paris, 1989 write, in a
    >> >of circular logic, if the ancestors of the giraffe did got indeed a
    >> >neck
    >> >they had to be bigger in general than the giraffes of today. They too did
    >> >reach (for) the leaves at the top of the tree.
    >> >
    >> >What in a sense dismisses any explanation as for Darwin as for Lamarck.
    >> >The thing is, according to Devillers and Chaline, that not only the neck,
    >> >but
    >> >also the frontlegs of the animals were getting longer. The result of both
    >> >processes, forced upon them by the environment, is that the giraffe,
    >> >standing up on its backlegs can now reach a hight of six meters ( 20
    >> >All is due to habits. And the habit, more likely the need, of reaching
    >> >the
    >> >highest leaves resulted in changes.
    >> >
    >> Nope. Shorter giraffes starved to death, taller ones (however 'taller'
    >was manifested, by neck or legs or both) survived to reproduce, giving us a
    >new spectrum of heights in succeeding generations; the shorter ones of these
    >generations starved to death, too, and the median giraffe height rose as a
    >consequence of this blind purposeless natural environmental selection of
    >certain mutations over others, or of one end of that species'
    >body-configuration spectrum over the other, in continuous iteration.
    >That giraffes have long necks due to their desire to reach the highest
    >leaves is what Gould refers to as "the tallest tale." It's a myth.
    >Giraffes developed long necks because the males of the species establish
    >mating supremacy by trying to knock each other down. Like goats they charge
    >at each other, except that their weapon is the neck instead of calcified
    >hair. They usually end up neck-wrestling and, inevitably, the longer neck
    >Environment and the threat of starvation have nothing to do with it.
    If you can provide a reference for this, I stand corrected of an incorrect assumption, and thank you for furthering my understanding of this phenomenon as direct social/sexual competition rather than food competition.
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    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

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