Re: Definition, Please

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Sun Dec 02 2001 - 15:56:10 GMT

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: Definition, Please
    Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:56:10 +0100
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Philip A.E. Jonkers <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 1:44 AM
    Subject: Re: Definition, Please

    What's inside is something else. Human
    > > evolution requires sexual reproduction, and the only way memetic
    > > evolution could happen would require a sexual component as well.
    > Biological evolution does not require sexual reproduction per se, that's
    > a subtle misconception. The three ingredients for having evolution are:
    > variation, selection and retention. If organisms do not reproduce sexually
    > but use kloning instead, they have to rely on the very rare event of
    > to facilitate variation. Hence a slow form of evolution.
    > The advent of sexual reproduction, on the other hand, meant a dramatic
    > increase in variation resulting in a very rapid rate of evolution.

    << But how do you make this consistent with the rapid evolution of or with
    the contaigon- concept by memes !?
    In a circular logic we must pre- suppose than that the increase in variation
    of memes, and therefor the very rapid rate of cultural evolution resulted
    from a kinda ' memetical ' sexual reproduction !?

    Because, the thing is_ ' we' exclude the possibility that memes or meme-
    tical info can affect the sex cells or the lineage of cells that led to them
    ( germline); we suppose that neural connections make up the knowledge
    we now possess of the world and we learn/ imitate/ select the kind of
    information we propagate further to our offspring.
    An evolutionary system evolves.

    But children are not born as white sheets of paper, a memetic isomorphism is
    present and IMO that did evolve over the eons of time.
    And yes, you can explain this easily with genetic variation, mutation and
    selection, but somehow we have to acknowledge the fact that within the
    memetic isomorphistic elements information is present which cannot be
    required genetically. How can than the pre- supposed evolution of the
    isomorphistic element take place !?
    Can we pre- suppose a sexual component !? I think we can.

    Maybe we must consider to give the idea that there is some kind of compa-
    tibility in the way memes combine, some thought.
    Maybe memes combine, form the isomorphistic element and gets tranferred
    to the offspring genetically, and maybe there is in each gene a part of the
    isomorphistic element present, maybe that is the just the element by which
    each gene will develop itself in the specific way it does.



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