Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA24618 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:52:13 GMT Message-ID: <005a01c179d7$f6ec5ee0$44c1b3d1@teddace> From: "Dace" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: <email@example.com> References: <200111290449.fAT4n8b23217@mail1.bigmailbox.com> Subject: Re: Verbal memeticism Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:48:19 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
From: Joe Dees
> >I think this is too broad a defintion of 'memetic.' Verbalizations, in my
> >view, are only memetic if they have self-dissemination and
> >characteristics. Techncology, disseminated and adopted can, yes, have
> >memetic properties, as can symbols/icons/logos, works of art, etc.
> What is memetic in technology is not the physical material out of which
technological artifacts are comprised (although physical properties plays a
great deal of constraint in this 'matter';~), but the meaningful (as
functions have meaning - designed for a particular task or tasks)
configuration into which the materials have been fabricated, and which can
be apprehended, understood and replicated by an observer, just as it is not
the sound waves in speech themselves which are meaningful (carrier), but the
meaningful configurations in which they are shaped (coded content), and not
the pencil lead (rather than, say, ink) that memetically matters, but the
glyphs into which they are written.
Configuration of matter by itself doesn't make a "car" or a "telephone" or a
"clock." Outside of a mind, these things consist of structured assemblages
of atoms. Technology involves a schism between mental form and material
form. There's no property of "telephoneness" that infuses the matter whose
shape and function triggers the concept of "telephone" in our minds.
Objects of technology can't come into being on their own but must be stamped
with the abstract form found in the mind of the manufacturer. The material
form, being dead, makes no effort to maintain itself in the matter currently
configured to its specifications. The phone doesn't care if its gets
Living form is neither abstract nor material. In other words, the mind is
neither idea nor brain.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Nov 30 2001 - 19:58:22 GMT