Re: Verbal memeticism

From: Dace (
Date: Fri Nov 30 2001 - 19:48:19 GMT

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    Subject: Re: Verbal memeticism
    Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:48:19 -0800
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    From: Joe Dees
    > >
    > >I think this is too broad a defintion of 'memetic.' Verbalizations, in my
    > >view, are only memetic if they have self-dissemination and
    > >characteristics. Techncology, disseminated and adopted can, yes, have
    > >memetic properties, as can symbols/icons/logos, works of art, etc.
    > >
    > >Lawrence
    > >
    > What is memetic in technology is not the physical material out of which
    technological artifacts are comprised (although physical properties plays a
    great deal of constraint in this 'matter';~), but the meaningful (as
    functions have meaning - designed for a particular task or tasks)
    configuration into which the materials have been fabricated, and which can
    be apprehended, understood and replicated by an observer, just as it is not
    the sound waves in speech themselves which are meaningful (carrier), but the
    meaningful configurations in which they are shaped (coded content), and not
    the pencil lead (rather than, say, ink) that memetically matters, but the
    glyphs into which they are written.

    Configuration of matter by itself doesn't make a "car" or a "telephone" or a
    "clock." Outside of a mind, these things consist of structured assemblages
    of atoms. Technology involves a schism between mental form and material
    form. There's no property of "telephoneness" that infuses the matter whose
    shape and function triggers the concept of "telephone" in our minds.
    Objects of technology can't come into being on their own but must be stamped
    with the abstract form found in the mind of the manufacturer. The material
    form, being dead, makes no effort to maintain itself in the matter currently
    configured to its specifications. The phone doesn't care if its gets

    Living form is neither abstract nor material. In other words, the mind is
    neither idea nor brain.


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