Re: A Question for Wade

From: Robin Faichney (
Date: Fri Nov 30 2001 - 09:18:34 GMT

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    Subject: Re: A Question for Wade
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    On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:39:50PM -0500, Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
    > Thanks Robin. I think I understand what you are getting at. I have not been
    > thinking as accents being relevant to memes (because an accent does not add
    > to the content of the communication -- though it might add/detract from its
    > communicability). Is an accent part of the 'packaging' of the content?
    > Interesting question. Let me think a bit about hits.

    I don't believe that memes should be associated only with meaning
    or content. This view loses what for me is one of the most important
    aspects of memetics: objectivity. (And anyway I have quite a
    well-developed view of what memes are that says it's not so.)

    > I take your point that a communication once made might not find immediate
    > acceptance but achieve it later.

    That's not what I meant. What I had in mind was an idea that is
    uncommunicated at a given point in time, but later communicated. Do we
    say that it suddenly then becomes a meme? I think we have to recognise
    that this is a purely nomenclatural issue. Insisting that uncommunicated
    ideas are not memes is not helpful, but neither is insisting that they
    are -- we have to get over issues that are *merely* definitional.

    > The thing that interests me about memes
    > (and around which I have built the definition that I use) is precisely this
    > matter the communication being taken up and disseminated further. If a meme
    > is not taken up when it is expressed, then it would have to have to be
    > embedded in some medium that will maintain its presence, until someone comes
    > along and takes it up. Thus artifacts, books, etc can be such a
    > preservative medium.

    And that's why the L-meme isn't good enough on its own. But more
    generally, I agree that the main application area of memetics is human

    > Bucky Fuller was convinced that the world wasn't ready
    > for his ideas and that he would die before it was, so he adopted a strategy
    > of embedding his memes in artifacts that reflected the intrinsic logic
    > meaning of the memes, in the hope that the artifacts would endure and convey
    > their embedded message when society was 'ready.'

    Very interesting. Thanks. Maybe I should be looking at a similar

    Robin Faichney
    alt.m: "Memes do not exist. Tell everyone you know."
    inside information --

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