Re: Study shows brain can learn without really trying

From: Wade Smith (
Date: Tue Nov 27 2001 - 18:32:40 GMT

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    Subject: Re: Study shows brain can learn without really trying
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    > I guess your point is that music has to be recorded to be a meme?
    > Well that's bullshit. You can copy tunes by just hearing them
    > from someone
    > singing.

    No, the feces of a bull is not a meme at all, unless I throw it
    at you. Monkey see, though, monkey do.

    Yes, music has to be recorded to be a meme. (Or written, or
    displayed in some way.) The audience at a concert, while being
    engaged in listening, and while sitting on a meme, and reading a
    meme that was passed out when they gave the usher their meme, is
    only performing the cultural behavior and etiquette of
    listening, not of using a meme. And none of them will make a
    meme while listening either.

    Again, I'm being strict here- artefact only. (That is the
    confine I've decided to inhabit.)

    > What do you think about radio?

    My old Kenwood is a wonderful meme. I give contributions to the
    local MIT station, using my legal tender memes. I call them on
    the meme connected to the phone lines and ask them to play
    obscure songs from the vast collection of memes I have in my
    record collection. Luckily, sometimes they have the same meme in
    theirs, and I can hear it when they use it.

    > you find
    > out that it is a live broadcast of a band playing. Suddenly
    > it's not a meme
    > anymore?

    I'm listening to a meme, the radio. I'm using it. The people
    broadcasting are using it. But, yeah, the sound it's making is
    not a meme. It ain't an artefact I can use or mutate in any way.
    And if I ask someone in the same room to stop what they are
    doing and listen, then we are both using the meme, we are not
    using the sound emanating from it, although that's a very nice
    technological function it is designed to produce.

    Again, being strict.

    The behaviors of primping and grooming in chimps are not memes
    either, regardless of the socialness, culturalness (accepting
    culturalness in other species), or etiquette of the behavior.
    The sounds they make are not memes either, regardless of the
    possible information and evolutionary advantage such auditions
    might have or convey.

    Cultural passage of tribal traditions, like oral history, aren't
    memes either. We may be lucky to meme them, though, through
    films and recordings, and ethnographic journals. But if we
    aren't, then, when the last storyteller dies, the story is gone.
    Unusable. Unmemetic.

    Again, being strict. And again, so far, I can discern no logical
    argument to sway me. Interesting, as I have only disinterest in
    this position, and am adopting it as an experiment. So far, it's
    holding up, while the objections seem bias-ridden and
    emotionally-tied, if not totally faith assertions or
    non-evidentially grounded assumptions.

    - Wade

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