Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA15543 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:39:30 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3102A6D14C@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <email@example.com> To: "'firstname.lastname@example.org'" <email@example.com> Subject: RE: A Question for Wade Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:34:58 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
<Maybe this is more communications theory (but, ain't I already come
> on the side of throwing out anything besides the actual physical artifact
> itself as being a meme- yup, I did...), but, please, bring out this meme
> that may be represented (and what does it mean to represent a meme any
> bloody way?!) in any media.>
I think this relates to the problem of imitation and learning
previously mentioned in relation to cycling. Do designers take a physical
bike and copy its engineering, or look at schematics, or photos or what?
The glory of communiction (or hell) is that both Joe and Wade are
right in the general senses, of first a message that can be conveyed in
multiple forms with the approximate same results, but also in the sense of
these different forms being distinct artefacts that are not_exactly_the
same. An engineer might be able to produce a working bike from copying one
given to them, following a set of schematics, or from a photo, but they
might also produce very different things.
This where the imitation argument runs into problems- without
instruction an engineer might copy the photography, say, literally making a
tiny bicycle (assuming nothing in the photo gave a sense of scale) or with
no moving parts). They might be a poor engineer like Scott said he's not
the musician he'd like to be, and imitation alone won't get them close
Environmental cues (e.g. instruction) give shape to behaviour, hence
salice missing the cultural context being the environmental context in which
people learn about the acceptibility or otherwise of burping after a meal.
Nice to see Wade joining the good ship 'meme as cultural artefact'.
I've got lots of messages to work through having developed a bad case of
"golfer's thumb" over the weekend, and being hampered by a thumb splint on
my left hand as a result of damaging (but apparently not tearing) my thumb
ligaments. I've only played golf twice this year, but my lack is probably
the factor! Anyway, interesting debate as ever people.
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