RE: A Question for Wade

From: Vincent Campbell (
Date: Tue Nov 27 2001 - 14:34:58 GMT

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    From: Vincent Campbell <>
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    Subject: RE: A Question for Wade
    Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:34:58 -0000
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            Hi Everyone,

            <Maybe this is more communications theory (but, ain't I already come
    > on the side of throwing out anything besides the actual physical artifact
    > itself as being a meme- yup, I did...), but, please, bring out this meme
    > that may be represented (and what does it mean to represent a meme any
    > bloody way?!) in any media.>
            I think this relates to the problem of imitation and learning
    previously mentioned in relation to cycling. Do designers take a physical
    bike and copy its engineering, or look at schematics, or photos or what?

            The glory of communiction (or hell) is that both Joe and Wade are
    right in the general senses, of first a message that can be conveyed in
    multiple forms with the approximate same results, but also in the sense of
    these different forms being distinct artefacts that are not_exactly_the
    same. An engineer might be able to produce a working bike from copying one
    given to them, following a set of schematics, or from a photo, but they
    might also produce very different things.

            This where the imitation argument runs into problems- without
    instruction an engineer might copy the photography, say, literally making a
    tiny bicycle (assuming nothing in the photo gave a sense of scale) or with
    no moving parts). They might be a poor engineer like Scott said he's not
    the musician he'd like to be, and imitation alone won't get them close

            Environmental cues (e.g. instruction) give shape to behaviour, hence
    salice missing the cultural context being the environmental context in which
    people learn about the acceptibility or otherwise of burping after a meal.

            Nice to see Wade joining the good ship 'meme as cultural artefact'.
    I've got lots of messages to work through having developed a bad case of
    "golfer's thumb" over the weekend, and being hampered by a thumb splint on
    my left hand as a result of damaging (but apparently not tearing) my thumb
    ligaments. I've only played golf twice this year, but my lack is probably
    the factor! Anyway, interesting debate as ever people.


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