Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA07729 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:03:41 GMT Subject: Re: Definition, Please Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:58:37 -0500 x-sender: firstname.lastname@example.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, Claritas Est Veritas From: "Wade T.Smith" <email@example.com> To: "Memetics Discussion List" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-ID: <20011124015838.AAA5787@email@example.com> Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
Hi Philip A.E. Jonkers -
>> >anything verbal is memetic by definition
>> And so is that can of worms.
>That's another meme I don't know. Enlighten me please...
Well, making memetics so overarching that all of language and all of
technology fall under its spell, is, well, problematic, inasmuch as it's
very hard to describe the universe in a few words, pages, models, or
institutions. Or a fishbowl.
"Opening a can of worms" is the phrase I allude to, much like Pandora's
box, since inside that can is a seething mass of -
5. An insidiously tormenting or devouring force.
- and, once out, practically impossible to recan.
But, again, calling all the processes of culture a memetic process is
also difficult if we see so much of those processes in patterns of normal
behaviors among such species as birds and termites and chimpanzees. It
seems simpler, in the Occamistic sense, to cover such things simply with
behavior- cultural behavior being a complex subset of developmentally
All of which means, I suppose, that after a long time looking at each and
every side, I'm coming down on the socio-biologic. It describes the best
model of fishbowl that fits the observations.
So, I'm also coming down on the side that declares that 'meme' is only a
handy word to describe a cultural artifact, and that any claim that such
an entity resides in any way within a mind is evidenceless prattle.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Nov 24 2001 - 02:09:31 GMT