Re: Memes in Brains

From: Dace (
Date: Sun Oct 28 2001 - 20:30:16 GMT

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    From: "Dace" <>
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    Subject: Re: Memes in Brains
    Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:30:16 -0800
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    Posted this a week ago.


    > On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 12:21:17PM -0700, Dace wrote:
    > > Hi Robin.
    > >
    > > > And mind, in
    > > > particular, is a high-level phenomenon about which physicists can
    > > > have anything useful to say, unless it concerns the limits of physics.
    > >
    > > Who says the mind is a phenomenon? If it were, then there's no reason
    > > physics couldn't inform us of its properties. It's precisely the
    self-existence of
    > > mentality that puts it off limits to physics.
    > You shouldn't take "phenomenon" to imply "objective".

    I'm not so sure the mind is a subjective phenomenon. Is there such a thing
    as a phenomenon that's not in some way tangible?

    Unlike the brain, the mind involves subjectivity. But that doesn't mean the
    mind *itself* is subjective. We have a faculty of imagination, and within
    this faculty we produce images. Does this mean imagination is itself
    imaginary? While the content of thought is subjective, thought does actually

    If brains are phenomena, then minds are noumena. Brains exist in relation
    to their parts and to other organs. A brain is composed of neurons, not
    some esoteric substance called "brainness." The mind, on the other hand,
    is a thing in itself. We tend to think of the "self" as an ingredient of
    mentality, like cayenne pepper in chili sauce. In reality, the mind simply
    exists in-and-of itself.

    The important division isn't between objective and subjective but phenomenal
    and intrinsic.


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