Re: Genes are Memes

From: Dace (
Date: Sun Oct 07 2001 - 19:13:57 BST

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    Subject: Re: Genes are Memes
    Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:13:57 -0700
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    > > > Nature shows behavior, when scientists observe how an animal hunts
    > > > or how planets move around the sun they observe behavior of
    > > > nature. In this way this behavior could also be called a meme, the
    > > > only problem is, that is hard to say who created that behavior.
    > >
    > > If everything is a meme, then the concept is useless. Fortunately,
    > > that's not so. Replication of behaviour is required.
    > Well, i gave the example of an animal hunting - that's obviously a
    > behavior. The other example was how planets move around the sun. And
    > this is a meme too, because humans already copied it in a way.
    > Satellites for instance. Or a tv program about physics which shows
    > an animation of how planets move around the sun. It is a meme found
    > in nature replicated by humans. Perfectly valid meme.

    This is what happens when you argue logically from a false premise. If we
    assume that minds are reducible to brains, then memes are no different from
    any other material object. If memes can exist in brains and books, then why
    not planets and stars?

    This is materialist mysticism. There's no mind in the brain. The brain is
    composed of neurons and synapses, not thoughts and feelings. To find
    anything other than chemicals in the brain is to engage in a kind of
    mystical projection. That memes exist in minds in no way suggests that they
    exist in brains.

    The same goes for books and other media. There are no memes or words or
    information contained in books. Books are made of paper, glue, and ink.
    That's it. "Words" are merely our *interpretation* of the shapes of ink we
    see on the page. So, too, there are no words in the air, only soundwaves.
    No words in our ears, only drumbeats. No words in our brains, only
    electrochemical reactions. Words exist in the mind and nowhere else. Same
    for memes.

    > The behavior of the sun is memetic, because we are the ones who
    > observe the sun and describe and explain it's behavior.
    > We live in a memetic world. Reality is a collection of and
    > a connection between memes.

    Seems like you've got a thing for memes. They're the explanation for
    everything, the answer to every question. You've been taken for a ride on
    the "meme" meme.


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