Re: What/who selects memes?

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Sun Oct 07 2001 - 14:28:43 BST

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: What/who selects memes?
    Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:28:43 +0200
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: salice <>
    To: <>
    > > doesn't mean I am on the "genes-drive-memes side". On the contrary. I
    > > gene-driven mechanisms (e.g.emotions) provide a biotope for memetic
    > > creatures (e.g. behaviours). A sort of landscape.
    > Yes, the brain is a landscape for memes. If a meme can't
    > survive in this landscape it won't survive or spread. Just like a
    > fish would hardly survive on land.

    Hi Salice,

    Ok, but how would such an epi- memetic landscape look like !?
    Would than such a landscape be genetic engineered or what !?
    If, in a way you suggest that certain memes won 't survive or spread in the
    landscape of the brain, you must have some ' structure ' that works against
    those memes, what would be that structure !?

    In other words, your brain must have than already installed epi- memetic-
    rules where upon than outside memes break down when they are not made
    out of the same ' ruling ' !?
    I can see your point, and I like it, but, most list- mem(e)bers won 't agree
    on that_ memes can only be part of the genetical built up they reckon if
    are, and I must desribe it accurate, already than natural selected for, part
    of the gene... that is not right, but I hope you do understand.

    You must in fact keep in mind that behind each and every genetic expres-
    sion there is some memetic activity going on.
    How we now see how our genes express themselves is due to ' former '
    memetical influence. Memes are in genes, but we don 't see this as such
    anymore. Genes were changed by memetic environmental influences but
    what kind of memes, which memes were responsible for that change in the
    first place we will never know.
    But, IMO, we can do that in the present...but that is a different

    > The difference is that people's brains differ from each other. A
    > certain persons brain might supply a landscape for a certain kind of
    > meme while another brain might not want to have this meme living in
    > it. Even more, the landscape is not empty, there are different
    > inhabitants who fight or work with each other. Different memes
    > inhabiting a brain.
    > The problem with memes working against dna is mostly a result of
    > culture. A culture dictates to a certain degree which memes have to
    > live in a brain.

    << Brains, at least in their built up would be the same, only the contents
    would differ. In a way, the landscape of where memes would live will
    differ from person to person. The difference would be than established
    due to specific, personal, group, individualistic, memetical, genetical,...
    related aspects of any kind.

    > So i think, the evolutionary system of memes does not fight against
    > the evolutionary system of dna. Some memes can hinder the survival of
    > certain genes. But memes can also help genes to survive.

    << In the most exteme possible case they will. Memes, if they were ever
    able to dismiss themselves of their organic container they would.
    They are selfish remerber ! Only their own survival, only their own pro-
    pagation counts. Our fleshy bodies do have restrictions in order to let
    memetic evolution take a high flight.


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