Re: Genes are Memes

From: Robin Faichney (
Date: Sat Oct 06 2001 - 18:02:54 BST

  • Next message: salice: "What makes a meme become succesful?"

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    Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:02:54 +0100
    Subject: Re: Genes are Memes
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    From: Robin Faichney <>
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    On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 06:25:05PM +0000, salice wrote:
    > > There's no such meme until the gene is discovered and described.
    > > Otherwise, we'd have to ask "who" created all the memes that are
    > > "discovered" by physicists etc. In fact, memes are in behaviour,
    > > books and brains, but not (otherwise) in nature.
    > I think that memes are also in nature.
    > Nature shows behavior, when scientists observe how an animal hunts
    > or how planets move around the sun they observe behavior of
    > nature. In this way this behavior could also be called a meme, the
    > only problem is, that is hard to say who created that behavior.

    If everything is a meme, then the concept is useless. Fortunately,
    that's not so. Replication of behaviour is required.

    > Another point.
    > Humans already change and changed nature for decades. When you look
    > at an avenue with trees at it's side, then the way these trees stand
    > there is not the natural grown structural pattern but the way humans
    > made it. So humans can find memes in nature, some they put into it,
    > some which just exist and can be received.

    That memes can affect nature through human behaviour is very obvious.

    > Whether a scientist actually "discovers" or "constructs" a meme is
    > really interesting and could probably both be true.

    Memes can only be discovered in the brains and behaviour of humans
    and the other species in which individuals learn from each other.

    > For example, some scientists observed the sun in the sky. They
    > discovered the meme which describes the movement of the sun. But

    Of course, memes can carry information about physics and astronomy, etc.
    If that makes the "behaviour" of the sun memetic, then so is absolutely
    everything else. But it's not.

    Robin Faichney 
    "It is tempting to suppose that some concept of information could serve
    eventually to unify mind, matter, and meaning in a single theory," say
    Daniel Dennett and John Haugeland. The theory is here:

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