RE: A Test

From: salice (
Date: Fri Oct 05 2001 - 17:49:09 BST

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    > <Commit suicide now.>
    > <White people are stupid gay racist fucks.>
    > <Reply to this mail now.>
    > Two things here. First, none of these are memes the first and last

    They all are memes according to the most accepted definition.
    "Commit suicide now." might be an instruction/suggestion but it is a
    meme nevertheless. A meme which some people might follow or let
    spread and others not. That you don't commit suicide but some
    terrorists did shows exactly that memes do not automatically make
    people do something. It is the persons brain which decides which
    memes to believe in, which to follow, which to let survive.

    > one is a statement. Such things may only become memes if they are
    > replicated, transmitted by people you've sent them to.

    Yeah so following your point, people decide which memes to
    replicate and transmit. Your words. My point.
    > Second, the point here is that the minds into which these phrases go
    > when they are read are all different, and will be stored differently,

    So memes get stored in brain?

    > interpreted differently, remembered or instantly forgotten etc. etc. Why?
    > One reason is that each individual has a unique set of personal experiences,
    > memories etc. such that the exact pattern of information storage in each
    > individual is going to be different.

    Yes, everyone selects diffently. Brains aren't not caring hosts. They
    select which memes to keep alive and let spread.

    > Thus if a meme existed in a mind, in
    > order to get into another mind, it would have to change its form. If it
    > changed its form, then it is not a replicator, and therefore the whole

    Oh that's crap. Just because something changes it forms does not make
    it not a replicator. My example "God is dead" might appear in
    different form on your screen. 15" screen. 17" screen. 21" screen.
    Different font. You could print it. You could write it with a pen. It
    stays a replicatory item.

    > The only way the analogy can work is if we junk what's going on in
    > people's minds (not that it's irrelevant), and instead concentrate on the
    > only things that can be demonstrably replicated- the cultural artifacts
    > themselves, such as these phrases.

    I thought they were no memes? So what's your point now?

    > Reply to this mail now.
    > There, I've replicated one of the messages.

    Yes, you did. Others did not. You selected.

    > What matters is the causal factors that impact on whether an
    > artifact is replicated or not, but this is a sociological, or social
    > psychological question.

    A brain question in the end.

    I gave this example about a book publisher who decides to publish a
    certain book. So the result that the book gets published is a result
    of a decision in the publishers brain. That this person might came
    to his decision because of sociological or commercial considerations
    does not matter. The decision happened in his brain. His brain
    decided whether this artifact gets replicated.

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