RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-Slaves

From: Philip Jonkers (
Date: Sat Sep 29 2001 - 17:05:45 BST

  • Next message: Philip Jonkers: "RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-Slaves"

    Received: by id RAA19892 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:12:14 +0100
    From: Philip Jonkers <>
    X-Authentication-Warning: www-data set sender to jonkers@localhost using -f
    Subject: RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-Slaves
    Message-ID: <>
    Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:05:45 +0200 (CEST)
    References: <>
    In-Reply-To: <>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6
    Precedence: bulk

    > >From: "salice" <>
    > >Reply-To:
    > >To:
    > >Subject: RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-Slaves
    > >Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:40:33 +0000
    > >
    > >
    > > > What scale would explain coming to the aid of a whale or other wild
    > >animal
    > > > in distress? I watched a program recently where a whale was in
    > distress
    > >and
    > > > a bunch of people got together to help it and it was then sent to a
    > >water
    > > > park for rehabilitation. *Why* (in the evolutionary sense of the
    > word)
    > >would
    > > > someone consider the plight of sea turtles a serious concern?
    > Would
    > > > inclusive fitness or reciprocal altruism fit the bill here?
    > >
    > >i dont know on dna-level, maybe these
    > >people share some genes with the distressed whale. they could also
    > >get money from tourists in the water park. on the meme level i mean
    > >you saw them on tv, if they wouldnt have saved the whale you wouldnt
    > >have seen them. it's just some kind of humor. but it makes you think
    > >so there's some meme business happening no matter how stupid it
    > >looks.
    > >
    > >i dont know like many people feel sad when they see a dead bird on
    > >the street but have no problem killing spiders or other insects.
    > >
    > The Jainists have taken respect (or reverence?) for animal to a level
    > I've
    > not seen except for the hardcore vegans and animal rights fols (such as
    > found amongst the hard-core of PETA). How does one explain the ethical
    > concerns of Jainists and animal rights activists or those of
    > conservationists (IMO not to be equated with animal rights activists)
    > who
    > rally behind endangered and threatened species? What in the Environment
    > of
    > Evolutionary Adaptedness would predispose someone toward going to these
    > lengths of helping non-kin who probably won't reciprocate?
    > I'd splat a housefly, but would leave a dragonfly, butterfly or ladybug
    > alone. I've learned to accept the presence of spiders at a young age,
    > though
    > I fear a bite from a black widow or brown recluse.
    > >
    > >maybe there is some dependence or just cultural learned belief.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > If humans as primates should have prepared fears for snakes, how does
    > one
    > account for the snakes as pets industry? Some people really love their
    > snakes. While working on a sea turlte project as side job we had was
    > catching reptiles and amphibians to identify, measure and release. I got
    > over my fear (innate or learned) of snakes pretty quick. Getting bit by
    > a
    > rat snake wasn't all that bad of an experience. I have a respect for
    > snakes
    > after handling several with varying dispositions, ranging from the
    > feisty
    > bite-at all-costs black racers to the docile scarlet snakes.

    Memetics provides an answer: I dub it interspecific altruism
    meant to increase one's own cultural fitness (apart from
    the animal subjects). See one of my previous postings...


    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Sep 29 2001 - 17:19:22 BST