RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-slaves

From: salice (
Date: Fri Sep 28 2001 - 01:47:13 BST

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    Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:47:13 +0000
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    Subject: RE: Thesis: Memes are DNA-slaves
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    > Salice,
    > Obviously memes are dependent on DNA in the trivially true sense that without
    > humans there could be no human culture. But one could extend that argument to
    > claiming that without matter there would be no genes - so are genes matter-slaves?

    yes. most lifeforms need energy from the sun, oxygen from the air,
    water and so on. that the usage of this resources is in the dna is
    not random evolution, the genes succeeded because the resources
    were there. if a matter-destroying gene would spread wide it would
    kill the basic resources which the being needs to survive and
    therefore all it's genes. that's why genes are slaves to the matter.

    looking at this further. matter is not just matter. i personally
    think that matter can be splitted in two parts. "unaffected"
    matter like sunlight or oxygen and so on (although it gets affected
    by life in a certain amount) and "affected" matter: life. so a gene
    does not only have to fit into a world of cold matter but also in a
    world of others genes which in the end build matter too.
    think of the "eating cycle". so dna also affects matter.

    memes is just one step on top of this in my eyes.
    memes exist on top of genes and matter. they have to survive
    and use the resources. like a certain gene would use the sun as a
    resource for energy, a meme has to rely on a certain mind-structure
    which is actually a result of dna and other memes.

    in the end all these factors: matter, dna, memes, live in one world
    and work together. each higher level needs the level below to survive
    and can't just evolve randomly. if a new "mutant" meme comes up, it
    has to survive in a world of memes, genes, and matter.

    > Of course, if the population was under some selective pressure and the meme
    > provided the solution to the 'problem', then in fact the reverse could occur,
    > in that the culture would drag along the genes.

    i agree partly. i see culture as the big brain over a group of
    people. if too many people are unhappy with it and a different
    version of culture which is more attractive to them is available
    they're going to accept this and try to put it forward. there is not
    one solution to problems. some people benefit from how things are
    and some don't on whatever level you look at it.

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