Re: state of memes

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Thu Sep 27 2001 - 10:30:31 BST

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: state of memes
    Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:30:31 +0200
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    > >From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
    > >Reply-To:
    > >----- Original Message -----
    > >From: Dace <>
    > > > It wasn't just the Palestinians. What happened two weeks ago was much
    > >like
    > > > the climactic scene of The Wizard of Oz, when the Wicked Witch of the
    > >West
    > > > melts into a pool of water, and her servants rejoice at their sudden
    > > > previously unthinkable liberation.

    > >You are quit right here !
    > >Not only the Palestinians and the Mexicians rejoiced.
    > >Here in Belgium also a few days after the first shock the comments in
    > >papers and elsewhere changed their tune.
    > >Also the people in the street saw this coming and rejoiced, not in the
    > >way the few Palestinians did, but anyway.
    > >
    > >The most common factor for this fact was that the Americans needed a
    > >lesson in respectfullness and in modesty. But somehow, Bush and his
    > >administration don 't yet grasp it !
    > >And that is something what most people I talked with see as the most
    > >immediate danger for the future_ that the West will enforce its own view
    > >upon the world, once again....

    > I don't think that anybody rejoicing in the tragedies of Sept 11 deserves
    > much if any respect. Will these same people rejoice if the next terrorist
    > attack wave is unleashed possibly replete with chemical and biological
    > agents? Would this just be another "lesson" we would need to learn while
    > others rejoice in our sorrow?

    Hi Scott,

    I agree with you on this one, but a general sentiment throughout Europe
    is the fact that we saw this coming. Not in the horrible way it did, and
    rejoicing over the death of more than 6000 people needs no respect. Period
    But, let me rephrase with an example which I suppose Philip won 't like,
    but I hope he will understand.

    For the last 125 years there is a clash between Belgium and Holland on
    the football field. We Belgiums lost the most of them. Holland rejoiced
    and made jokes about us.
    But now, one match away, we will enter the Worldcup for the sixth time in
    a row. Holland with its very good worldplayers ans its worldteam will not.

    That rejoiced us and we made jokes. Holland, superior as they think they
    are on a footballfield twist and turn not to aknowledge the fact that they
    are not so good as they think they are. The arrogant way by which they
    do that makes us more rejoiced about their loss.
    But if there is some disaster in Holland we will help, no doubt about it.
    It is a sportive way....

    But, no I don 't think people will rejoice the next attack, they will be
    horrified as they were the first time around, but they will say, that it
    could be exepted that due to the fact that Bush don 't grasp the full
    extend of the first blow. If biological and other agents were to be used
    we will be as terrified as all the others.

    But don 't misunderstand me, we Belgians would be as surprised as you
    if some terrorists from Congo (our past colony) would smash into the
    centre of Brussels. Others would say that they saw that coming...
    Like, in a sense I would not be surprised if a airplane would crash on top
    of the Nato building in Brussels. Rejoicement, no !
    Yes, in the way that those politicians think they are safe and do nothing
    to boost their security.

    The American way of self- complacent is just a striking way of doing things
    we as Europeans don 't, that is makes us angry. We can have a critical
    peek upon America, another perspective which Americans lack, due and
    I repeat, to the fact of what I have called Memetic Determinsm.
    Americans have to ask the WHY question, not only the why some people
    want them all dead, but also the why some people around the world
    rejoice in what happened to the US.

    Best regards,


    ( I am, because we are) plain

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