Re: Belief & Behavior

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Thu Sep 27 2001 - 09:47:44 BST

  • Next message: Kenneth Van Oost: "Re: state of memes"

    Received: by id JAA14173 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:08:17 +0100
    Message-ID: <003e01c14731$2a98a160$f89cbed4@default>
    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
    To: <>
    References: <>
    Subject: Re: Belief & Behavior
    Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:47:44 +0200
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
    X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
    Precedence: bulk

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Richard Brodie <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 4:27 PM
    Subject: RE: Belief & Behavior

    > I'm not sure what religion you are thinking of that has a "no argument, no
    > reflection" policy. Most religions have questioning and reflection as in
    > important part of them.

    Hi Richard,

    Most religions, I agree, but not Islam.
    One of the priciple pathologies of islam is its absolutism.
    Mohammed, remerber, was the last prophet and there can no further
    revelation. Islam accept Jesus as a prophet, but Mohammed stays on
    the end of the line.
    No argument here.

    No reflections count in its absolutism.
    If there is no further revelation than what is written down in the Koran
    must be the ' last ' words of God. Period !!
    This has lead Islam into a situation where it can 't examine ( critically)
    own beliefs and rules.
    Christianity did this and can do this. Islamitic critical research is still
    in its infancy. ( Look what happened to Rushdie, and look what happens
    in Iran, where Rasta... and something is trying to change the whole of the
    ballgame. The people are standing one with him but not the religious rulers.
    Islam/ Koran can 't be read in an open manner.

    That is in a way what I always tried to say, that Islam and other and what-
    soever are trapped in its own memetical " absolutism ".
    Islam has its view, we got our own.
    And we must respect that, but somehow, and I will take here the Western
    point of view, if we want to help, if some government is asking for our
    help, we always set another camp aside.

    If we want to help, for example the Kurds out of humane reasons ( we
    help in a certain way their memetic development) we descrease others in
    their attempt to do so too_ and we ran into trouble with Saddam.
    You can 't do right for both, better in a way is not to help, but we can 't
    that either, because taking up such a position is committing memetical
    suicide. We need to help in order to stay memetically alive and to de-
    velop memetically further.
    But, Islam hasn 't evolved memetically beyond the words of Mohammed,
    and it must be to stay alive. Or it will kill itself or it will be destroyed
    We need in a sense, someone to opposite Bin Laden, someone who is
    willing to let undergo Islam a normal evolution, but and I agree, this can
    be seen again as a Western point of view, but within the Islamic world
    more and more voices are heard to change.
    Maybe we can help in someway, there we are again.....

    Best regards,


    ( I am, because we are) in essence modern

    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Sep 27 2001 - 09:13:21 BST