Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA23591 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Fri, 14 Sep 2001 03:04:22 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [184.108.40.206] From: "Scott Chase" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Cichlids & Memes Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:59:23 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F70ZQQN0qvXH2acvqLb0001140f@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2001 01:59:24.0129 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0851510:01C13CC0] Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>Subject: Re: Cichlids & Memes
>Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:56:52 +0200
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Vincent Campbell <email@example.com>
> > > But proving, convincing others would stay difficult because, if I may
> > > express myself in this way, you and others lack the memetic capacity
> > > to see things in a different light.>
> > Come on Ken, that last sentence is a bit unfair. You know as well
> > as any of the people who've been on this list a long time that all that
> > sought here for radical new ideas is evidence. Failure to see anything
> > substantive in MR comes from a lack of evidence.
>Hi Vincent, Lawrence, Scott and Dace,
>The point I was trying to make in the separate posts to you all, is that
>our personal history, our national history, our genetic and memetic his-
>tory, how extend and regardless our backgrounds were and is, makes
>a very important difference.
>Now, with the US Tragedy in mind, Nato joined forces but Belgium had
>at first hand problems with the solidarity proviso of article 5.
>I wonder why !
>In my mind it all comes down to the same argument which I hold up
>high in any discussion, the Belgium people, in casu thus the Belgium
>government, individualistic as she is ( and as a people we are hyper-
>individualistic IMO) don 't like very mush to give up any independence,
>whatever the reason, whatever independence that is.
>Remerber, Belgium was invaded by Germany, France, Spain, Nether-
>lands,... many wars were fought here, many soldiers are burried here.
>Our history is full of such examples and that fact reflects, where ever
>in our behavior towards anything what might jeapardize our individua-
>lity in its extreme form.
>That is why, I think, that you Vincent, Lawrence, Scott, Dace and all
>the others are sitting in the same boat, not so in the extreme phase
>where I think the Belgium people are in, the reasons why may differ,
>but in anyway I think that in the case of believing Shelrake or any other
>can be haunt down to the same principle... that we all, in our mind are
>getting clouded by the education we recieved, where we live etc.
>The main straim in science is Darwinian in nature, and that is fine by
>me, but we have to have an open mind about it.
>Thoughts, ideas, experiments, etc are imbued with Darwinian- like
>tracks. Our mind and our ideas, thoughts and statements are in a way
>so formed, memetically that is, that we can 't see it in another perspec-
>tive. ( That is one way, IMO, to understand the ' why ' of the US
>That is not your fault, by any means, but think about it.
>If memes took over from the genes and drive now, both genetic and
>memetic evolution, than the idea that Darwinism is the right way to
>follow must have its memetic reason for the memes, not for us !!
>And in a way, and I agree on the fact that this is pure madness to say,
>failure to see anything as evidence where others see this as the evidence
>they need to prove MR, is maybe due to the same principle.
>Maybe our brains, our minds have different epimemetic lineages by
>which they work. And that is maybe why you don 't see MR in the
>same light like I do. But for the record, the way I use MR is in the
>way as Scott I believe, uses it, purely as part to investigate things
I don't quite get your drift here. I don't use MR. I haven't realized any
utility or veracity for the MR concept. My interest is in the concept as
concept and what attracts people to notions such as MR. I'm
parapsychologically challenged so I'm at a disadvantage.
To be fair, I try to keep "memes" at an arm's length too.
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