Re: Cichlids & Memes

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Thu Sep 13 2001 - 20:56:52 BST

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: Cichlids & Memes
    Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:56:52 +0200
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Vincent Campbell <>
    To: <>
    > > But proving, convincing others would stay difficult because, if I may
    > > express myself in this way, you and others lack the memetic capacity
    > > to see things in a different light.>
    > Come on Ken, that last sentence is a bit unfair. You know as well
    > as any of the people who've been on this list a long time that all that is
    > sought here for radical new ideas is evidence. Failure to see anything
    > substantive in MR comes from a lack of evidence.

    Hi Vincent, Lawrence, Scott and Dace,

    The point I was trying to make in the separate posts to you all, is that
    our personal history, our national history, our genetic and memetic his-
    tory, how extend and regardless our backgrounds were and is, makes
    a very important difference.

    Now, with the US Tragedy in mind, Nato joined forces but Belgium had
    at first hand problems with the solidarity proviso of article 5.
    I wonder why !
    In my mind it all comes down to the same argument which I hold up
    high in any discussion, the Belgium people, in casu thus the Belgium
    government, individualistic as she is ( and as a people we are hyper-
    individualistic IMO) don 't like very mush to give up any independence,
    whatever the reason, whatever independence that is.

    Remerber, Belgium was invaded by Germany, France, Spain, Nether-
    lands,... many wars were fought here, many soldiers are burried here.
    Our history is full of such examples and that fact reflects, where ever
    in our behavior towards anything what might jeapardize our individua-
    lity in its extreme form.

    That is why, I think, that you Vincent, Lawrence, Scott, Dace and all
    the others are sitting in the same boat, not so in the extreme phase
    where I think the Belgium people are in, the reasons why may differ,
    but in anyway I think that in the case of believing Shelrake or any other
    can be haunt down to the same principle... that we all, in our mind are
    getting clouded by the education we recieved, where we live etc.
    The main straim in science is Darwinian in nature, and that is fine by
    me, but we have to have an open mind about it.

    Thoughts, ideas, experiments, etc are imbued with Darwinian- like
    tracks. Our mind and our ideas, thoughts and statements are in a way
    so formed, memetically that is, that we can 't see it in another perspec-
    tive. ( That is one way, IMO, to understand the ' why ' of the US
    That is not your fault, by any means, but think about it.
    If memes took over from the genes and drive now, both genetic and
    memetic evolution, than the idea that Darwinism is the right way to
    follow must have its memetic reason for the memes, not for us !!
    And in a way, and I agree on the fact that this is pure madness to say,
    failure to see anything as evidence where others see this as the evidence
    they need to prove MR, is maybe due to the same principle.

    Maybe our brains, our minds have different epimemetic lineages by
    which they work. And that is maybe why you don 't see MR in the
    same light like I do. But for the record, the way I use MR is in the
    way as Scott I believe, uses it, purely as part to investigate things

    Best regards,


    ( I am, because we are) united in grief

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