Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA13259 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:19:49 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01c12751$5aae6f60$db86b2d1@teddace> From: "Dace" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: <email@example.com> References: <3B732E54.31548.1291B56@localhost> <004a01c121cb$97351280$da86b2d1@teddace> <3B77C29B.234E569D@bioinf.man.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:18:08 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
> Obviously. The question is how the birds manage to maintain the right
> distance, particularly when the whole flock turns on a dime. Either the
> brain is running an incredbly elaborate motion program or the flock is a
> morphic field in which the birds are "particles." While the latter
> possibility might strike you as being "weird," the former possibility
> require neural computing processes unimaginably more powerful and rapid
> anything humans have ever devised.
> No, just rapid reaction time, and the reaction times of birds, like
> their heartbeats, are a lot faster than ours, crerating the illusion
> that they are all changing direction at the same time when actually
> there is a small reaction time involved.
> Have a look round for a boids variant (most have probably seen it
> already): Simple sim of birds (from The Bronx I suppose) with a handful
> of rules (stay a rough distance from your neighbour, etc.) and they do
> most of the things all flocks do - it looks really organic, but needs no
> 'hand of god' style guiding force.
Yes, all you need is a simple set of rules to account for this kind of
behavior. But different species of birds produce different patterns of
group-flight. Why this particular pattern on not another? Why do the birds
all go left and not right, or right and not left? You're arguing from
abstraction. It's not enough to account for the general outlines. We've
got to fill in the details. A simple set of rules doesn't explain the
specific flocking behavior of a specific set of birds any more than their
rapid reaction time.
> As for the intentionality of the
> flock, just watch some crowd violence to see how these para-democratic
> decisions are made.
As this list demonstrates, humans are no less vulnerable than birds to
collective mentality and behavior.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Aug 17 2001 - 20:24:14 BST