Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA12359 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:57:39 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101746013@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "'email@example.com'" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: RE: Callouses and Kings Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:50:14 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Callouses would not evolve all of a piece, but gradually;
<I can almost believe that with calluses, but the gradual emergence
> complex structures like eyes is highly problematic. Most of what goes
> an eye has no use unless the whole structure is present.>
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Go back and read that chapter
from 'The Blind Watchmaker' that you cited a while back, and read the
explanation of how eyes can evolve gradually.
>> but what
>> you're REALLY missing here is dermatological understanding.
>> Animals (including us) can develop callouses anywhere there is
>> chafing on the skin; it's built into the dermis; the only
>> needed is one that permits such growth in the absence of
>> stimulation, and that mutation could happen anywhere, and only
>> stick where it was useful and selected for.
<You're simply restating the problem. If the mutation is random and
> affect any part of the skin, why does it affect precisely the area where
> it's needed? And why not another mutation in that spot instead?>
Because of selection. Those whose tenednecy for callouses better
fit the environmental demands that the organism is living in, persist more
than those that do not, which is why I'd put good money on Joe being
absolutely right about sex workers not getting callouses on their sexual
organs as they might make sex painful, too difficult, or make them less
desirable to potential mates. These would all limit the chances of people
with calloused genitalia- in comparison to other forms of callous.
<Mammalian evolution developed from primitive lemur-like stock very
> after the fall of the dinosaurs. Within a few million years all the basic
> forms were in place, from bats to whales.>
It is a continual process, and there are multitudes of species that
evolved soon after the dinosaurs that are no longer with us, some only
having disappeared pretty close to, or after, the emergence of modern man
(e.g. smilodons- sabre-toothed tigers, wooly mammoths, rhino sized guinea
pigs etc. etc.). The forms of all mammals were not fixed 60 million years.
<To reject the Blind Designer is not necessarily to accept the
> Designer. I reject all concepts of an independent design, whether
> theological or chromosomal.>
What do you mean by independent design? If you mean not subject to
motivated intent from some external source or other, I don't see any basis
for rejecting that.
-- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the University of Stirling shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.
=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Aug 17 2001 - 11:02:04 BST