Re: Logic + universal evolution

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Tue Aug 14 2001 - 00:52:14 BST

  • Next message: "Re: Gene-Meme Co-evolution in Reverse?"

    Received: by id AAA03483 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:54:50 +0100
    X-Originating-IP: []
    From: "Scott Chase" <>
    Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
    Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:52:14 -0400
    Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
    Message-ID: <>
    X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2001 23:52:14.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9FD4D90:01C12452]
    Precedence: bulk

    >From: <Wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU>
    >To: <>
    >Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
    >Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:15:41 -1000 (EST)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU>
    > >>Reply-To:
    > >>To:
    > >>Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
    > >>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:49:08 +1000
    > >>
    > >>On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 02:26 PM, Scott Chase wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>>From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU>
    > >>>>Reply-To:
    > >>>>To:
    > >>>>Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
    > >>>>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:53:34 +1000
    > >>>>
    > >>....
    > >>>>Buffon's view of transmutation of species was a degenerational one -
    > >>>>each species in a genus bar at most one was a degeneration from the
    > >>>>"prime stock" or "primary stem" (premiere souche). His pupil and
    > >>>>friend Lamarck applied a *generational* view to species
    > >>>>transmutation, but because he thought it was an internal impulse or
    > >>>>drive that caused it, he used the term "evolution", which Geoffroy,
    > >>>>*his* pupil, carried on into the 19th century debates.
    > >>>>
    > >>>So Lamarck actually did utilize the word "evolution"? Can you square
    > >>>this with what Richard Burkhardt says in his intro to Lamarck's
    > >>>_Zoological Philosophy_ (1984. The University of Chicago Press.
    > >>>Chicago.)? On page xxii Burkhardt writes:
    > >>>
    > >>>(bq) "Lamarck never used the word "evolution" to refer to the process
    > >>>of the origin and successive transformation and development of organic
    > >>>beings over time. Nor for that matter did he use the word
    > >>>"transformism"." (eq)
    > >>
    > >>Hmmm. I thought he did.
    > >>
    > > Whew! After posting the above, I had second thoughts as to whether I
    > > misread you. With all the he's and it's your passage could have been
    > > taken several ways and my not being up to speed on the relations
    > > between Buffon, Lamarck, and Geoffroy (which one...Etienne or
    > > Isidore?) did not help matters much. I vaguely remember the
    > > form-function tension between one of the Geoffroy's and that
    > > curmudgeon Cuvier. It's* almost as hard to keep up with as all that
    > > begetting in the Bible.
    >Okay, I checked my source (Richards' _The Meaning of Evolution_) and he
    >agrees that Lamarck never used the word. He also agrees, but with no direct
    >cite, that Lyell introduced the term into the biological lexicon when
    >discussing Lamarck. However, he claims that the use of "evolutio" from
    >development, and the cognate term Entwicklung, was applied both to
    >transmutation and development by Teidemann, von Baer, Serres, Haller and
    > >
    > > *-"it" meaning historical connection
    > >>
    > >>I'll check my sources, but there's no reason to
    > >>doubt that you (ie, Burckhardt) may be right about that. Perhaps it's
    > >>one of those snide remarks thrown at transformists by Cuvier? I know
    > >>it's in Lyell (or at least I recall it being in Lyell... my memory
    > >>isn't as good as it should have been. Principles has been rereleased in
    > >>facsimile by Chicago, I think - I'll see if I can find a copy of vol
    > >>2).
    > >>
    > >>Great. Now I have another thesis avoidance topic...
    > >>
    > > I wouldn't make it all that high a priority.
    >Avoiding the thesis is always a high priority, although I was a good boy
    >today, and counted the number of epithet substitutions in Pinnipedia.
    > >>
    > >>>>...
    > >>
    > >>>>Pluralism rears its ugly head, but AFAICT MR need not apply. To quote
    > >>>>Gould, the pluralistic hedonist, himself on this (from "Kropotkin was
    > >>>>no crackpot" as found in _Bully for Brontosaurus_, 1992, paperback
    > >>>>edition, W.W. Norton & Company, New York, p. 339):
    > >>>
    > >>>(bq) "I see no evidence for Teilhard's noosphere, for Capra's
    > >>>California style of holism, for Sheldrake's morphic resonance"(eq)
    > >>>
    > >>>Has anybody spoke to the infamous 100th monkey phenomenon yet?
    > >>>
    > >>Well they have now, damn you :-) Do we *really* have to go through
    > >>that? --
    > >>
    > > Well the more we struggle with the retelling of the retelling of the
    > > 100th monkey, the easier it will become for everyone else to grasp,
    > > even those not reading this list. If everybody on this list were to
    > > read extensively on the 100th monkey phenomenon, we could carve a
    > > mnemic groove deep enough that future generations would pick up on the
    > > story without much effort at all. They would be resonating with us via
    > > the collective memory storehouse. Ecphory abounds.
    > >
    >I checked my Liddell and Scott, and ekphoresis means the carrying out of
    >dead bodies (as in "bring out yer dead!" in MP&tHG). I wonder if that is
    Well I think ecphory has more to do with memory retrieval. I could be wrong
    since my ecphoric processes are progressively declining. Brief reference to
    Daniel Schacter's _Searching for Memory_ (1996, Basic Books, New York, p.
    57) seems to agree as Schacter says: "...*ecphory* is the process of
    activating or retrieving a memory." Semon coined this term.

    Given the cobwebby and decayed condition of my mnemons, bringing out the
    dead might hit the nail on the head.
    >John a
    Are you labelling your subpersonalities?

    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Aug 14 2001 - 00:59:12 BST