Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA06179 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:08:15 +0100 From: Philip Jonkers <P.A.E.Jonkers@phys.rug.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: rugth1.phys.rug.nl: www-data set sender to jonkers@localhost using -f To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:05:59 +0200 (CEST) References: <20010726131734.AAA4273@email@example.com> <002a01c1177f$fba0f640$26c4fac1@necdirect> In-Reply-To: <002a01c1177f$fba0f640$26c4fac1@necdirect> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 18.104.22.168 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
Wade and Philip embarked on the question:
> > >how do you account for the
> > >existence of the world?
> > Is evolution, as a process, applicable to the universe universally?
> > Personally, I have no problem seeing it as a process of life, but, I
> > don't see the same connection with the other materials of this
> > which can't really be said to replicate.
First of all, with `world' I actually meant `living world'.
Anyway, your ideas of a `takeover' theory are interesting
but hard to confirm (or falsify). Allow me to philosopize.
During the birth of our universe it may be that, in
the brief instant of particle generation during the big-bang,
neutrons, protons and electrons might have acted as the first
stable replicators. These particles may have
acquired their huge abundance by generating themselves from the
tiny sea of infinitely density. When all particles were created
this replicating process ceased and the universe started to
expand from the interactions (electromagnetic and strong forces)
between the newly created particles. Since these particles are
obviously stable (long decaying half-time) it may be the end-product
of some evolutionary generative process. But this is all
metaphysics and, as far as I can see, not really open to
scientific studies or debate I'm afraid.
On evolution on a universal scale you might wanna check out
the site displaying a paper by the physicist Lee Smolin:
The paper mentions an interesting hypothesis (also defying testing
though) which treats our present universe as a product of
a natural selection process too. Smolin argues that each
black hole potentially spawns a new universe in which, if conditions
are favorable, new stars are generated. From the dying most massive
stars black hole may emerge which, in turn, may generate new
> I would really appreciate your opinions.
> - Can you imagine how many more takovers there could have been from the
> bang to the 'genetic takeover' ?
Well, the evolutionary generation of particles just prior to the
big-bang instant I sketched just above.
> - Can you think of any mythological scheme that could fit with such a
> view ?
What's the use of mythology in the field of contemporary
science or philosophy? Am I correct when I say that the use of
mythology lies in making certain issues clear to the lay-man
which fails to understand the issue in its abstract but honest
> - Did you notice that in each takeover, the 'lead' is taken over by what
> formerly created as a tool by the older realm, to project itself into
> future ? (We animals might have been created by 'mother' earth as tools
> shape her into her future...)
> - Can you figure out what sort of takeover could happen after the one we
> experiencing now (DNA --> meme) ?
As Blackmore argues in `the Meme-machine' the meme inside humans
are not really stable entities when it comes to fecundity,
fidelity and longevity.
It can easily be argued that memes stored and processed digitally
in computers are much more successful. I cannot really predict
a follow up of the meme in the near future, but I can, however,
anticipate a change of meme-vehicles: from the human brain to the
processing units of the artificial intelligence computers.
> - Can you ever piss in a river again ?
Excuse me? The world is your urinal....
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