RE: Memetic vulnerability: was: Faking It

From: Vincent Campbell (
Date: Fri Jul 20 2001 - 11:39:54 BST

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    From: Vincent Campbell <>
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    Subject: RE: Memetic vulnerability: was: Faking It
    Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:39:54 +0100
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    Speculative memes aguably have found their niche in fiction (and
    philosophy). In other words memes that don't relate in an immediately
    utilitarian way to the real world around us, may thrive in appealing to our
    imagination, hope etc. But they have to exist somewhere, to be able to
    survive long enough to be transmitted to others, and thus they have to
    retain some kind of form which will influence how, and even if, its

    Look at Orwell's idea of Big Brother, technologically impossible in 1948,
    getting ever more possible today, and through satellite surveillance and
    CCTV (apparently the UK has proportionately the most CCTV cameras anywhere
    in the world), but most explicitly referred to in a TV game show. Could
    Orwell have ever foreseen his concept being turned into a form of

    Fiction and philosophy allows us to consider 'what if...?' in a
    transmittable form. I suppose one could call these 'speculative' memes, if
    that's what you mean.

    Incidentally, as an aside, I wanted to ask our US colleagues about Survivor,
    which has completely bombed in the UK (I think due to the lack of
    interactivity, and because it's a game that involves people being really
    nasty to each other for money, which isn't very appealing to British
    tastes). Anyway, I presume the challenges have been the same for the UK/US
    versions. On one challenge, they all had to stand on a log out in the
    water, with simply the person staying on longest winning. In the UK
    version, three guys stood there for over 20 hours, the last two for 23
    hours. I wondered how long the US contestants stood there for, assuming
    they did the same challenge?

    Big Brother 2 has been a ratings success, in stark contrast, and this time
    genuine romance has blossomed, although again typically British perhaps
    (unlike the Dutch, German and Spanish versions of the show) they have
    constantly restrained themselves from having sex despite the fact they're
    clearly gagging for it.


    > ----------
    > From: Kenneth Van Oost
    > Reply To:
    > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:37 am
    > To:
    > Subject: Re: Memetic vulnerability: was: Faking It
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Vincent Campbell <>
    > > For new memes to thrive, they can either exploit new niches (e.g.
    > internet
    > > jargon, or newer still, text messaging jargon), or they can simply be
    > more
    > > adaptive than previously dominant memes. Like cats and dogs being
    > > introduced into Australia and New Zealand, European and American
    > (corporate)
    > > imperialism thrust new memes into different environments, and seem to
    > catch
    > > all the "flightless" memes wiping them out.
    > Hi Vincent,
    > Of course I agree with the notion that memes can either exploit or be
    > adaptive.
    > But, thinking about it, and having Chris Taylor term ' resident ' in mind,
    > I come up with the following.
    > Couldn 't there be a third way by which memes thrive !?
    > I mean, in a " speculative " way !?
    > I mean by this all what is concealed by/ in the future, hope, utopia;
    > every-
    > thing what will become ' truth ', solution; everything what seems
    > promising,
    > is bright of prospects, everything what can be exepted !
    > The meme already thrives but is not yet determinated.
    > And yes, already niches are occupied by it in the present but for all
    > already
    > in the future too.
    > And yes, adaptive forces are all already working by and on it, already
    > present ( and future ) memes change by the meme's not yet deter-
    > minated presence !?
    > But IMO that will be not the same like pure and simple exploitation or
    > simple adaptation.
    > Exploitation of new niches seems absolute, determinated, what in the
    > sense of a future/ speculative meme is not.
    > Adaptation is absolute and determinated too, what in the sense of a
    > speculative meme is not.
    > There seems to be a semblance, there seems to be traces of non-
    > absolutism, of non- determination in the context wherein we use the
    > term speculative memes.
    > Is this clear !?
    > Regards,
    > Kenneth
    > ( I am, because we are) thinking
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see:

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    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

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