Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA09108 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Sat, 7 Jul 2001 19:10:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c10715$757082e0$2aa2bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745F5D@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: sexual selection and memes Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:47:51 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-RBL-Warning: (orbs.dorkslayers.com) 18.104.22.168 is listed by dorkslayers.com Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Clearly in humans mate choice is extremely complicated and goes both
> ways to an extent far greater than many other species. This means there's
> lot of scope for behaviours aimed at getting a mate thatcould work for
> sexes just as well in different contexts. It depends on how one defines
> gendered characteristics doesn't it- a can of worms certainly. Take ideas
> the 'new' man from the 1980s, for example, caring sharing men, house
> husbands etc. etc. But to regard such behaviours as feminine is surely a
> mistake (not to mention a red rag to a bull for some), as these
> characteristics could be extremely useful in men demonstrating to women
> their capacity for high male parental investment. But then how do we
> such behaviour- as feminised? or as a masculine strategy?
> The one advantage that the sexual selection angle seems to have, in
> arguing for memes, is the experimental evidence apparently showing the
> potential influence of social pressure and imitation on mate choice, often
> over-riding genetic preferences. Dugatkin's book is full of stuff from
> guppy experiments, as well as other studies, that seem to give a strong
> basis for saying something else other than genes is important in key
<< Maybe I explained it not enough !?
I don 't think it is a mistake, not in the least because those changed
behavior characteristics are due for a great deal to the greater amount of
oestrogen in nature.
The latest reports tell us that the quality of sperm is descreased and
that man- potency related disorders are on the increase.
IMO, it is not a masculine strategy, it seems this way because the
oestrogen- level influences the genetic built up of men somewhat.
The robust- manly- like characteristics are nibbled off bit by bit by
That is, changed genes give rise to changed memes, maybe in a very
subtle way, I agree, but IMO a very significant one.
And in the way sexual selection is concerned I agree on the fact that
something else other than genes is important in key animal behavior,
namely, changed genes give rise to changed memes and therefor in
a way an other " expression- site " for the gene... ' more feminized '....
Maybe in a way, a gene has two sides, one masculine and one feminine,
and maybe the amount of oestrogen is changing the balance....
For the animal world as such, where apparently no memes are in-
fluencing the behaviors, deformed animals are the result.
( I am, because we are) something else
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