Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA27579 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:38:00 +0100 From: Philip Jonkers <P.A.E.Jonkers@phys.rug.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: rugth1.phys.rug.nl: www-data set sender to jonkers@localhost using -f To: email@example.com Subject: RE: Mooning Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:34:41 +0200 (CEST) References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745F0F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745F0F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 184.108.40.206 Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
Quoting Vincent Campbell <email@example.com>:
> I'm not so sure it's actually much of a taboo, rather a generic form
> displaying contempt or defiance. Showing one's bare behind to
> opponents suggests a lack of fear as well as of contempt (re: the scene
> 'Braveheart' where Mel and the boys raise their kilts to show bare arses
> the English at a battle- don't know historically is this was done by
> before battle or not, but certainly lots of ancient armies fought naked,
> near naked to provoke fear in the opposition).
People engaged in armed conflicts better be fearful, it keeps
them sharp. I even dare to state that, unless one's dealing
with fools or zombies, every participant in a war-like
situation is next to scared as h*ll. Lack of fear in a
war-like situation is just not plausible I would say.
Fear lies always at the base of aggresive behavior, which
is a self-protective psychological response. To put it
bluntly, fear makes one sharp on the battlefield.
> In terms of your question about general behaviour, there was that
> whereby a man stands in a busy city street staring upwards, most passers
> ignore him. Put five people standing together staring up though, and
> numbers of people will stop to look up also. I believe this has
> to do with social compliance, at least that's how the social
> interpret it.
So there's a critical number of memetics instigators necessary
then to start spreading memetic behavior?
> Of course, the memetic element rests on whether or not people copy what
> see. It does raise the issue of social learning and memetics though.
> Perhaps mooning like other aggressive/critical gestures are products
> social learning not memes?
Granted, from a certain able age we all know how to physically
lower our trousers and publicly show are butts. This alone
smells of social learning indeed. However, as people still
might lack proper information on
the right occasion to perform this act (of mooning)
still suggests transfer by imitation once someone suggests
a suitable occasion by demonstration. People make this
additional information their own thus transforming social
learning into imitation I would say.
> > ----------
> > From: Philip Jonkers
> > Reply To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:30 pm
> > To: email@example.com
> > Subject: Re: Mooning
> > Interesting anecdote,
> > > Sociologists would argue that the word, the act, and its meaning
> > > strongly tied together. Most memeticists probably agree that these
> > > three
> > > spread together as a meme complex.
> > Members of a meme complex (memeplex) do have strong mutual
> > ties too, right? At least they shouldn't be incompatible or
> > mutually conflicting as the memeplex otherwise would disintegrate.
> > Therefore both interpretations are mere
> > reformulations of the same statement I would say.
> > >The meme may get its fitness from pushing a sexual button, according
> > >Brodie's theory (2).
> > De act defies or breaks a sexual taboo and therefore has an
> > impression on observering bystanders likely to share the same
> > sentiments as the actual mooning-initiators. This may help the
> > mooning-wannabe's to cross the threshold imposed by the taboo,
> > thus promoting the adoption of the same provocative taboo-breaking
> > behavior by means of memetic transmission (imitation).
> > Is this an example of a more general type of behavior?
> > Once someone breaks a taboo (temporarily) as a provocative
> > act of defiance. Its observers and bystanders, perhaps en masse,
> > imitate the actor and as such break the taboo as well.
> > A memetic avalanche effect by means of taboo-breaking?
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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