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On 9 May 2001, at 12:50, Robin Faichney wrote:
> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 02:37:51PM -0500, email@example.com wrote:
> > On 5 May 2001, at 13:30, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > So what do you
> think of the use of "information" in communication > > theory? Is that
> all wrong too? Are you the only one that's in step? > > > There is
> code, carrier and message in information theory, and the > code
> encodes some semantic content (the message) in a medium > of exchange
> (the carrier). It is sent by a sender and received by a > rerceiver.
> The message is the way a sender INFORMS a receiver > of a particular
> semantic content (the message) sent via a particular >
> action/perception medium (the carrier) and using a commonly >
> understood code. The person not commonly understanding both > the
> premisis and consequences of information theory is you, Robin.
> information theory: The study of information by mathematical
> methods. Informally, information can be considered as the extent
> to which a message conveys what was previously unknown, and so is
> new or surprising. Mathematically, the rate at which information
> is conveyed from a source is identified with entropy of the
> source (per second or per symbol). Although information theory
> is sometimes restricted to the entropy formulation of sources
> and channels, it sometimes includes coding theory, in which
> case the term is used synonymously with communication theory.
> [Dictionary of Computing, Oxford Science Publications, 1986]
> All of the techniques of communication theory apply to any stream of
> symbols regardless of their meaning, or even if they have none. All
> that is required of each "symbol" (you might think that word
> inappropriate if it has no meaning, but that doesn't matter) is that
> it have some particular probability of occurring.
If something has no meaning, how can it communicate that which
was previously unknown? A message can have any meaning
whatsoever, but it must have some meaning.
> Like "symbol", "information" is just a word that can be used any way
> anyone wants to use it, assuming only that it serves their
> communicative needs. My needs connect with those of the communication
> theorists. Yours apparently don't.
Actually, in the ansence of meaning, nothing can be
communicated, thus any theorists who embraced such an
absurdity would find no practice possible by means of which they
could even contemplate beginning an attempt to justify it.
> But in any case, to try to be dogmatic about definitions is futile.
> And to imagine ontological arguments where there are really only
> semantic and methodological ones is ridiculous. To say "there is no
> information 'out there'" is practically meaningless. Whether it can
> be useful to treat material structure as if it were information could
> be a worthwhile argument. But you're too busy insisting "there is no
> information 'out there'" to take part in it.
But it ISN'T 'out there'; it is a function of the interrrelation between
the onserver and the observed, or the sender and the receiver, thus
if it has no 'in here' correlate, it can not have an 'out there' correlate,
either. You may dogmatically embrace a naive platonic
informational "form" if you wish, but the phenomenologically
informed know that it's not that simple, nor can it be so
> Robin Faichney
> Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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