Re: memes and sexuality/ Gender Bias for Memes

Date: Tue Apr 24 2001 - 00:57:34 BST

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    Subject: Re: memes and sexuality/ Gender Bias for Memes
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    Hi Ken --

    Len had written:
    >I believe that gender and sexuality are one and the same thing. No person
    >is a blank slate. Males and females enter the world with gender brains
    >that are *receptive* to certain memes, *remake* memes in their own sexual
    >image, and *reject* others.

    Kenneth wrote:
     << I don 't think gender and sexuality are one and the same thing, though !
    Your sexual identity is not always your gender.
    See for example the disorder ' genderdysfori ', you can have been born as
    a man but you can have all the feelings and characteristics of a female.

    I don't believe that a human with male genes and hormones can have all the
    feelings and characteristics of a female. The memes incorporated into his
    persona are developed and matured in a male substrate. It is quite a
    different experience for a male assuming the role of a female than for a
    female adhering to her female role. One is real and one is counterfeit,
    not meant in any pejorative sense.

    For a male to play with a doll, something considered weird by society---
    doing the forbidden--- is quite a different childhood experience than it is
    for a female playing with a doll---feeling a satisfaction in imitating her
    future maternal role---and gaining approval of others. The two experiences
    are dissimilar and done for different reasons.

    >Being a man but having the psyche
    >of a female, living in an environment which don 't have a clue what you are
    >going true and don 't forget, it is trying to make a man out of you !!

    I believe that a male having the psyche of a female is a totally different
    person than a female having a female psyche.

    The experience of society trying to make a man out of a male with a
    female psyche creates a much different person than a female child
    becoming a female adult.

    >The remake would only start at a later stage in life. At this point you have
    >two possibilites, 1) you change sexe due to operations or 2) you stay
    >"man " but you live your life as a female ( you wear dresses, put make- up
    >up,... in other words, you become a transvestite.)

    A male undergoing a sex change operation mimics the appearance of a
    bonafide female but the change is superficial. The emergent creature
    is not a female and he will never experience what it is to be a woman.
    He is simply a castrated male adopting the appearance of a female and
    then taking on a female lifestyle. (I've read that sex-change people have
    a high rate of suicide; not sure if that is accurate.)

    >Each human has a determining core or center based on male or female
    >sexuality. There develops a powerful degree of memetic selection based on
    >on gender along with each person's unique birth characteristics. For each
    >one of us, beginning at birth, memeplexes build but always on a substrate of
    >the powerful sexuality genes, hormonal influences, and other determiants.
    >For Homo sapiens, there is a range of genetic sexual influences with
    >permutations, and degrees of cross-over in each gender.

    << yes, here you are right though.
    But I think you and I have to be aware of the fact which TJ Olney mentioned,
    that people can be split into two kinds_ the XX and the XY.
    Memetic selection would be based on the gender characteristics XX and XY
    and not on male and female sexuality. Being feminine or masculine is IMO
    even important than being a man or female in the first place.
    In a way the distiction between of what sexe you are and what kind of
    gender related memes you use make up your " sexual identity " and in
    the end that is part of your personality.

    I agree.
    The only point I'd like to reiterate is that for a male the gender related
    memes of a female are experienced quite differently than those sane
    memes experienced by his female counterparts. Similarly, a female
    adopting male behaviors experience those memes quite differently
    than do her male counterparts. This is because the gender memes are
    superimposed on non-corresponding substrates. Additionally, cultural
    attitudes foisted by family and peers, give the cross-over experiences
    unique qualities not experienced by typical males and females.
    Ken wrote:
    >But there is no doubt that certain memes are typically
    >feminine/ masculine.

    >IMHO a meme is asexual; what gives it a feminine/masculine
    >identity is the persons individual sexual orientation who incorporates it
    >into his/her consciousness.

    << Ok, but suppose that a meme is not asexual. Suppose that a meme,
    any kind of meme, influences the persons individual sexual orientation,
    what than !? Couldn 't that be a " cause " for homosexuality !?
    They found a ' gene ' for it, why not a ' meme ' !?
    ( I have no hidden agenda here !!) just a question.

    I believe that one's sexual orientation is based on genetics and
    then experienced as emotions. With an emotional substrate, the
    person will then pick and choose memes to support and enhance
    his/her sexual orientaition.
    To say that memes are a cause for sexual orientation, such as
    homosexuality is, I believe, putting the cart before the horse.

    >It would be interesting if through research we could tease out the purely
    >gender-related reasons for male-female differences in their understanding
    >and usage of language.

    >How would you tease this !?

    << Do you know by any chance 500 female adults !?
    No kidding, would 5 give any result !? Just to see that it works !?
    What are in your opinion, " suspected male/ female differences
    " in words !?
    The only woman I know is my wife. :-)
    My opinion is that males and females have unique understandings of some
    memes based on their sexual/gender differences. If we tested sex change
    people on these "*gender-related memes*, I believe that the results would be
    at variance with their original sexuality but also at odds with the gender
    are attempting to become.

    Kindest regards,
    Len Jayson

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