Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA17117 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:49:02 +0100 Subject: Staying tipsy Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:44:50 -0400 x-sender: email@example.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, Claritas Est Veritas From: "Wade T.Smith" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "memetics list" <email@example.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-ID: <20010420134511.AAA6486@firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
On 04/19/01 18:11, email@example.com said this-
>Some complex concepts simply cannot be translated into simpler
>systems; if you think that they can, then supply me with a
>molecular conception of self-consciousness.
Ain't a molecular conception _less_ simple? The simple conception is, um,
"god gave me a soul" - it is highly complex and involved to organize the
physics of molecular interactions to explain anything, much less
>You are attempting to use "conceptual framework translation" as a
>substitute for causation
That's my take on Robin's statements as well, so far.
>Being ABOUT causation is not the same as BEING causation; the
>word 'tree' is NOT the leafy green thing with a brown trunk growing
>out of the ground in my back yard.
As well, and perhaps it's just a quirk of understanding, I come up
wanting to recite the White Knight's Song at such times as well. I have
it in a clip file for numerous occasions, but I won't post it again....
>> But what matters is that you missed "which is not always desirable
>> because it means losing sight of the bigger picture".
>In the case of the dynamically recursive pattern configuration of the
>emergent self as it relates to its material substrate brain, such a
>reduction is not only not desireable; it is not possible.
If the self is the product of a tipping point within this wetwork
interacting with nature that we call homo sapiens sapiens, then I too
fail to see how discussion, however minute and detailed, of 'individual
grains' could lead to understanding of the causation of this self,
although, yes, perspectively defined and technically augmented (and
discovering anything, in this time and space, is pointless and futile
without such augmentation) observation can certainly lead to explanatory
facets of this (geodesic?) synergism.
But, truly, parts of my own brain are getting fevered.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Apr 20 2001 - 14:52:51 BST