Re: memes and sexuality/ Gender Bias for Memes

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Tue Apr 17 2001 - 21:22:24 BST

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    Subject: Re: memes and sexuality/ Gender Bias for Memes
    Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:22:24 +0200
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      Hi Len,
      I wrote,

      Of course you are right in mentioning what the dictonary has to say about
      gender, but what JR meant is IMO the following,
      The general idea that memes could have a gender bias is expressed in
      which words oneself uses to express themselves.

      I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
      Are you saying that the male gender and female gender typically
      use different words to express themselves?

      << First let me remind you of the fact that this thread is highly speculative,
      the concept is still very much in its infancy. Look for clues in the post of
      TJ Olney.
      But anyway, Yes, that is was I am saying, males and females are using
      different words to express themselves, but with that understanding that they
      can actually use the same word(s) but they give it/ them another " meaning "
      _that is not the right word, I would say... another " depth "; a different
      " tongue "; a different " mode ", there is somehow another " expression
      side " to them... or something similar. Maybe someone out the linguistic
      area could tell you I suppose.
      Anyone !?

      Or, are you saying that the same words typically mean different
      things to each gender?

      << Yes, this is also true ! Where do you think the verbal battle between
      the sexes is coming from !? The " gender " where we talk about here,
      is there to be found IMO. That is, typically meme((s)structures) were to be
      typically feminine/ masculine.

      Or is it a combination of both?
      << I think this would be the ultimate discription, but there could be a third
      possibility involved. This would be the possibility that memes themselves were to be masculine or feminine in their origin. Don 't really know what that would
      mean substantial, though.
      Regardless if they were expressed by a male/ female they would stay as
      they were ( feminine/ masculine).
      So males could express ' feminine ' memes and vice versa without really
      know it. In a way memes intermix and in a sense they don 't really care
      by which gender they were to be expressed.
      But there is no doubt that certain memes are typically feminine/ masculine.

      Like " the- being- pregnant- meme " for females
      Like " they- think-they- are- in charge- meme " for males.

      That is when a male talks about order will he mean the same thing as a
      female does !? And will he do that with to his gender- related words !?
      Does a male/ female thinks, feels, experieces, .... the same things when both
      read a book about suicide !?
      That is in the ' sex ' meaning of gender.
      Why not simply hypothesize that there are gender differences in the way
      people express themselves? Or, there are gender differences in the way
      people *experience* certain memes?

      << Of course, I have no problems with this statement. Like Vincent said
      on the first draft of this thread way back in July 2000, there has to be
      something different about male/ female information processing.
      Males/ females use different language constructs as a result of that, and
      in the end this includes different cultural/ social/... behavior.
      like I asked before
      on this list, concerning memetics that Memetics a Male- thing !?
      Not many females take actually part in the discussions, and that is just a
      way in how you must see what JR means. Is memetics somehow male-
      gender related !? According to Chris Lofting, as I remerber correctly it is,
      but don 't ask me how....)
      I've been wondering the very same thing; why so few females post to these
      discussions. What makes memetics a male thing? In would be interesting
      to have Susan Blackmore's input on this question?

      << The answer where Chris came up with was that females do participate
      but they like to lurk. They follow their female instincts, opportunism, mitsein,
      they do work on memetics but they don't show it, they do not act like we
      males do, debating, throwing arguments at eachother.

      << I think, Daniella and TJ olney answered this for me though ! Thanks !!
      It would be interesting if through research we could tease out the purely
      gender-related reasons for male-female differences in their understanding
      and usage of language.

      How would you tease this !? The only real reference I got, is the one which
      L. de Bivort gave us last July 2000,
      " The best and most interesting source that I am familiar with is Tannen's
      work, but it is essentially anecdotal and speculative ".
      Don 't know anything about it, never checked the refenrence... maybe now
      I will.
      Kindest regards,
      Len Whoops! That expression sounds female! :-)
      Let me change it.

      Take care ole buddy,

      You to, mate !
      ( I am, because we are) (full of ) mussels ( get it !?)

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