Re: RS

From: Robin Faichney (
Date: Sat 06 May 2006 - 11:02:46 GMT

  • Next message: Robin Faichney: "Re: RS"

    Thursday, May 4, 2006, 11:38:05 PM, Wade wrote:



    You claim that "a pattern is always information". I'd claim that information is always a pattern, but not all patterns constitute information.

    Although there are differing views of how information might be defined, the concept is generally assumed to involve some conscious mind.  

    Not so. The concept of "physical information" is very well established these days. If I wasn't having connection problems at the moment I'd quote google counts and links, but you can google it yourself. The wikipedia entry was particularly good the last time I looked at it, but of course that might not remain the case.

    Physical information is basically just any and all form/structure, and it is a very powerful concept. The usual concept of information is actually intentional information, and all intentional info is encoded in physical info.


    A pattern does not I think have such implications. A crystal is a pattern of atoms whether or not there is anyone around to comment on the fact. If you want to claim that all memes are information then you have to use quite an uncommon definition of that information is any represented pattern. 

    Representation is intentional, but I think I know what you mean. I'd say all patterns and all extant random sequences too are, or at least can very usefully be considered, information.


    if you do use this concept of information it would seem to rule out objects in themselves as counting as memes.  I'm not sure that this is correct.  I'd say that physical wheels for example are memes as well as informational representations of wheels.

    To me the most useful way to view it is to see wheels and all other artifacts as encoding memes, so the process of memetic transmission is one of en/decoding between behaviour and artifacts and brains.


    Best regards,


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