From: Richard Brodie (
Date: Thu 04 May 2006 - 23:16:03 GMT

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    Chris Taylor wrote:

    <<There is no such thing as a meme per se, it is just a useful approximation for (the result of) a patterning process.>>

    There is no such thing as anything per se. We put labels on pieces of the universe, or concepts, so we can talk about them. It is impossible to get memetics if you believe there really is such a thing as a mountain.

    <<So if we're just talking about generalities, then yes the hitting a ball with a stick 'meme' can jump, sort of, but is that a baseball meme? No. If we want to get detailed, then we have to go with Kate -- an _ana_logous thing can be constructed, and the more carefully the selection criteria are expressed (rule books, examples, coaching) the closer the approximation, but the baseball 'meme' most probably doesn't even exist.>>

    And yet the game is played in much the same way all over the place every summer. And trust me, as a 10-year umpire: most players, coaches, and fans have never read the rulebook.

    <<Replication is a specific thing; what has been described is not that -- it is the control of an environment such that it favours convergent evolution.>>

    You are looking for a double helix?

    Any mechanism that results in another mind having a copy of the meme will work. We're not picky.

    Richard Brodie

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