Re: Cartoon meme

From: Douglas Brooker (
Date: Thu 09 Feb 2006 - 15:02:40 GMT

  • Next message: Keith Henson: "Re: Cartoon meme"

    Scott Chase wrote:

    >> From: Wade Allsopp <>
    >> Reply-To:
    >> To:
    >> Subject: Re: Cartoon meme
    >> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 22:08:40 +0000
    >> On 2/8/06, Douglas Brooker wrote:
    >> > latest story at the is that the original paper in
    >> Denmark
    >> > is joining up with the Iranian paper that's having a holcaust cartoon
    >> > contest - they're hoping to publish the winning entries jointly.
    >> That's an interesting development. British TV showed an example of
    >> one of these "holocaust" cartoons 2 days ago published by the Arab
    >> European League. A picture of Anne Frank in bed with Adolph Hitler and
    >> another denying the holocaust took place.
    >> The matter seems to have metamorphasised from a test of the principle
    >> of free speach by an obscure Danish newspaper following the viist to
    >> the Middle East by Ahmad Abu Laban of the Islamisk Trossamfund and
    >> Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the Danish-based European Committee for
    >> Prophet Honouring. along with some supporters who took along a 43 page
    >> dossier including the cartoons and some considerably more provocative
    >> images.
    >> I presume what their underlying intention was was to help isolate the
    >> muslim population in Denmark from the native population which of
    >> course they have managed to do in spades.
    >> I'd say that publishing Holocaust cartoons will just further this
    >> isolation as I think the reaction of most Westerners will be: Hold on
    >> a minute: publishing a cartoon that suggests that there is a link
    >> between Islam and terrorism (especially in the context of having daily
    >> images of islamic extremists blowing 30-50 fellow muslims up with
    >> suicide bombs or beheading aid workers, and the historic Muhammad
    >> himself being a pretty accomplished warrior ) isn't quite in the same
    >> category as denying the fact that Hitler killed 6 million Jews or
    >> advocating the Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.
    > Or invoking the blood libel:
    > The ironies of these recent events astound me.
    >> From the perspective of memetics I think one needs to look at the
    >> whole Islam memecomplex and in particular the protective strength to
    >> the religion given by thehypersensitivity to criticism aspects of the
    >> ideology.
    > Yeah, but you don't want to dwell on such topics on this list, lest
    > you get warned by the moderator (hint, hint).


    the problem I think, as some of the replies indicate, including the above, is that some have jumped right into the substantive issues, good-bad, right-wrong, rather than a memetic analysis.

    Should not an adequate account of this start off with an account of the commentator's own memeplex of values which are to be used the subsequent analysis?

    One reference, for example to "the protective strength to the religion given by thehypersensitivity to criticism aspects of the ideology." ought to be deconstructed for its own memetic qualities. so what is the 'hypersensitivity' meme? is it a purely subjective assessment residing in the minds of those who use the word? can some objective truth or insight about the meme in question result from the application of "hypersentitivity" as a measure?

    might comparison between 'honour cultures' and 'no honour cultures' be useful?

    there is a lot buried here.

    first thing is to define the meme? yes? no? is it the cartoon? if so what are the qualities of the cartoon? Or is the meme the reaction to the qualities of the cartoon. what exactly is spreading? what are memetic qualities of the reactions in the western media?


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