From: Scott Chase (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue 10 May 2005 - 23:59:49 GMT
--- Derek Gatherer <email@example.com> wrote:
> At 12:24 09/05/2005, you wrote:
> >Not sure autism is comparable to anorexia.
> I think one basic difference is that a 'normal'
> person can suddenly become
> anorexic, whereas I don't know any examples of
> somebody becoming
> autistic. Generally, people are born autistic or
> escape it. I think the
> same is true for the milder Asperger's syndrome. If
> I remember rightly,
> Aaron Lynch used to try to make a case that drastic
> dieting was a 'thought
> contagion' (not got chapter and verse on where that
> claim is made, but I'll
> get it if required - it might just have been in a
> list posting). I'm not
> sure if that also implies that anorexia is therefore
> also posited as being
> a TC too - it might be possible to diet drastically
> under social pressure
> without suffering the defect in self-perception that
> is more or less taken
> to be necessary for anorexia.
> Current genetic studies indicate a weak disposition:
> so it might be that the predisposed can tumble over
> into anorexia if the
> social conditions are correct.
Well I started into Pope, Phillips, and Olivardia's
_The Adonis Complex_. They talk about the explosion of gyms and memberships as a recent phenomenon and how an industry has evolved to exploit male insecurities. In a memetic sense, perhaps women have developed an
"immunity" to this targeting of messages preying upon perceived inadaquacies, where due to taboos against being open with such things men are highly susceptible...I dunno.
At one point in the early part of the book they
speculate about a genetic cause (ie- "almost
certainly" they say) and refer to some of their own
studies in the endnotes, but I can't tell if there's
going to be more speculation in these studies about a
genetic factor or if they actually present some
compelling *evidence* that backs up this contention.
They make a comparison to an obsessive compulsive
disorder where those with a body image distortion
obsess about their looks and engage in compulsive and
repetitive behavior such as weight lifting. It's
these "obsessive-compulsive symptoms" that might be
where they trot out the genes...I dunno.
They add other factors into the mix such as
psychological development ("experiences growing up")
and society with the transmission of the unattainable
ubermensch ideal. They also briefly cover the Adonis
myth so maybe the Jungians (Adonis myth as archetypal
predisposition with its primordial Adonis
image...urbild) and Freudians (Adonis complex rings
close to Oedipus complex) won't feel left out in the
cold. Or maybe memeticists can reduce it to a complex
of memes having to do with male body image (an "Adonis
I do think that the social criticism angle is somewhat
valid, given all the infomercials trying to sell us
stuff for our abs and for convenient home workout
equipment so we can look like the chiseled model they
show working out on the machine. We also have blatant
male penis growth commercials here in the US which
exploit another inadequacy and complement the ads for
erectile dysfunction quite well (make it bigger and
keep it up). Crude but implicit and advertized on
I have thought about some of this stuff over the
years, but never at the formal level these authors use
to present it. Is this media targeting of males like
some of those buttons Brodie talks about in his book?
I guess now that I'm thinking in terms of an "Adonis
complex" and "bigorexia", the latter an extreme subset
of the former, I'm going to be wearing new lenses on
the world and start analyzing people and institutions
(gyms, marketing agaencies and such) and artifacts
(weights and supplements) in a different manner. Are these new found lenses themselves distorting the picture? That itself presents a problem in focus.
I vaguely recall some nutritional supplement program
that existed in the late 80's (the brand name escapes
me) that had an array of supplements to take in a
strictly regimented manner. The ads showed pictures of
before and after models. The befores were typically
pale and overweight with little muscular definition
and the afters were typically tan with a significant
change in muscular definition. I don't recall ever
buying this program, but I did buy my fair share of
carb and protein powder and spent some money on the
monthly gym membership fees.
The authors don't seem to be critical of gyms or
working out in general, but are highlighting what they
see to be a looming crisis where people's
self-perceptions have gotten *way* out of kilter. On
the other extreme is that docuentary "Supersize Me"
that is critical of the fast food industry and makes
one think of the prevalence of obesity in the US (and
UK?). I wonder what societal relations one could
explore between the 'fast food' and 'body image'
Not sure if they discuss the phenomenon of female
bodybuilding in this book, which might be good for a
comparison. What in the female psyche is there that
would drive one's body image towards the ideal of
being very muscular?...
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed 11 May 2005 - 00:15:42 GMT