Re: Durkheim redux

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Fri 08 Apr 2005 - 18:47:40 GMT

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    ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Chase <> You wrote,
    > I'm thinking that Durkheim believed that socifacts had
    > emergent properties, where collective representations
    > are more than a sum of individual representations.
    > This might be a little vague, but he might have looked
    > at collective phenomenon as resulting from the way
    > individual phenomenon were arranged or organized.
    > There's a danger of vitalism when one takes holism to
    > extremes though.

    This boils down to my own long time hobby- horse_ we look at the wrong marker ! With what we end(ed) up with [ the collective represented behavior/ gesture/ performance/ word/ etc_ which thus apparently has been selected and evolves, and what is represented as Darwinian evolution] in IMO the wrong marker.

    The individuak, yet straighted by society over a serious amount of time, is the object we have to look at NOT what is collectively represented as the proper behavior to follow; the right gesture to make; the neat word to say. PC is a collective represented ( wanted) form of living together, NOT the will of all individuals involved. This boils down I know into a paradox_ Darwinian evolution/ selection paradigma's are involved ( the majority of the population is all for PC, so the rest must comply willingly or fight back in proper yet selected ways) where IMO, no Darwinian ( internal) process is needed to come to a conclusion ( for the individual)_ where thus a memetic ( Darwinian- like) proces is pre- supposed in the mind to set memes apart ( for or against PC) to get to the initial point.

    But what if the individual ( personal) memeset is working totally on its own, with no outside connection or attachment !? What then !? What if collectiviness is just a result of how individual stances were arranged and organized !? Darwinian processes of selection and evolution would be involved, but were to be NOT the motor behind the scheme !?



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