From: Kate Distin (email@example.com)
Date: Mon 21 Mar 2005 - 16:49:33 GMT
Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
>But to get a clear cut of what is the representation of the thing, don 't
>you need the ' pre- existing- info ' about the thing, whatever that might
>be, to call what you set under your car ' representations of round things '
>That spoked wheels are phenotypic effects of a lot of memes, ok, but
>ain 't got the ' form ' additional ( memetical) info in itself !?
>And do possess thus, in that respect spoked wheels not ' memes ' !?
>Spoked wheels can surely be seen as being realizations, technological
>that is, but from my POV they are also representations.
>We had here in Belgium about 25 years ago a hype about a certain type
>of vest, called Millet. Very expensive stuff.
>Those, were ' realized ' I presume in the same way other jackets were
>fabricated, but what they represented was totally different.
>They stood for richness of those who wore them; they stood for a kind
>of sub- cultural aspect of our schooldays; we were somewhat puzzled
>by them ( what made them so special); they were even the reason why
>kids stole them. The memes we got in those days about those jackets
>were trigged by what they ' represent ' not merely why and how they
>were ' realized '.
>Wear Armani or Lagerfeld, sprinkle yourself with Chanel 5 and people
>will get a different idea about you.
>Maybe you ' realize ' in wearing the stuff a certain aspect of your perso-
>nality, but what they ' represent ' will be, for others, more important.
>So wearing Armani is ' not ' the phenotypic effect of the memes for
>wearing Armani. This is not in itself memetic, but what wearing Armani
>' represent ' is !?
>Do I get it right !?
I've talked about spoked wheels in particular in my replies to Bill.
Wrt clothes - I've been pondering this for a little while now, and come
to the conclusion that I don't have enough of an understanding of
fashion to know the answer. As I've said already, for me memes have to
contain information: they have to be representations of the portion of
information that they replicate. Now, I'd always assumed that clothes
do not represent any information. I guess I've seen them as phenotypic
- or to put it differently, behavioural. Certainly there's a sense in which they are phenotypic, in that they are the result of a designer's meme for that clothing item. But it hadn't occurred to me that they might also represent something; that they might be worn in order to convey a particular message, and seen that way too.
I think I still *tend* towards seeing them as behavioural, but I'm
certainly open to persuasion. I'm actually a bit of a cultural freak
when it comes to fashion, as I was brought up in a home where it was
just not important. More than that, in fact: not even noticed. Partly
this was due to financial constraints, but more significantly the result
of parental values. Consequently I just don't get it. My friends buy
new clothes and I think things like, "but your old ones aren't worn out
yet." So you can see that I'm just not qualified to respond to your
suggestion! But I'm still pondering it . . .
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