Greeks (was Group selection)

From: Alan Patrick (
Date: Mon 21 Feb 2005 - 17:48:13 GMT

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    > Even though the psychological traits behind this story were right out of
    > the stone age, the effects on the track western civilization took were
    > profound--and probably more from Athens than Sparta.

    Its the interplay that always got me....Athens would not have flowered without Sparta's military ability saving Greece, and then Sparta finally finishes off Athens in the Pelopponesian war but in the process weakens itself sufficiently to be pulled down in later wars

    > Keith Henson
    > PS. The rise and fall of Greek society gets only end note treatment in
    > Dr. Diamond's Collapse, but it was for the same environmental damage that
    > happened to the Mayans, though not so extreme.

    D'you think so...I thought it was the socio-economics of non-unity...Philip of Macedon "industrialised" himself sufficiently to arm a much bigger country that could face the Greeks militarily, and the Greek states didn't unite against him sufficiently (no unity memes in circulation....). Sparta's weakness by now didn't help either.

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