Re: memes in literature

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sat 03 Jul 2004 - 14:15:37 GMT

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    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Doty" <>
    > A couple of points here: first, I didn't write the snippet you quote;
    > second, since you know almost nothing of me or my life, you have no
    > basis to assert that you are "more individualistic, more an individual"
    > than I. And, anyway, is being "individual" a clear concept or a
    > desirable goal?
    > It's probably a good idea not to use "you" in this kind of generalized
    > post.
    > Well, what you say is all pretty abstract to me--I have a hard time
    > relating to it on more than an intellectual level, and yet it seems very
    > personal for you. As a father and grandfather, I have much different
    > perceptions of parenting than I did as a child, young man, young father,
    > and so on. What I do understand from your message is that you've had a
    > difficult life, with a lot of turmoil, and have survived and even more
    > than survived. I admire that a lot.


    Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were the one though, but yes, I should have ! Perhaps it was better to write, that I got the odd feeling ( if I look at people around me struggeling with relationships, with their identity and their supposed place in this world) to be more ' me '_ in the sense that Smail argues_ that people/ kids were raised with and within values/ ex- pextations of their parents and their parents society/ culture. Take religion for example, kids are getting raised within the religious context of their parents... they have no choise. The result of such a parential choise brings down conflict and possible psychological tur- moil if the kid(s) aren't that keen to follow any gods commandments.

    But yes, you are right to question the concept of individual/ individuality as such_ and if I did hurt you in anyway in assertin' that I am ' more ' one than you, that wasn 't my intention though, but IMO, being an in- dividual is indeed no clear concept, due to the questions raised by Smail. If parents raise their children, in the assertion they do ( nature/ nurture remerber!) due to their own convictions/ values and expecta- tions, the kid his/ her opinions/ ideas/ characters and beliefs aren 't really theirs are they !?

    It isn 't, it was never and will never be my intention to raise a question of having pitty for me, please...I am old and wise enough to run my own race, but thanks anyway, but my conviction still meets its own expec- tations_ personal or not_ I do believe that due to some particular cir- cumstances people walk such different ways and byways so that they find a specific place for themselves_ where others and most IMO, just (has to) follow and live their lives in common ways and on common, known social/ cultural grounds with no hope of ever escaping the raised demands of such concepts/ contexts; with no hope of ever changing the world they live in and that due to the memetic concepts which are part of themselves. I got, IMO anyway, due to the death of my parents, the chance to walk a complete and more personal, ' a more me ' path than others.

    That you got different perceptions of being a father and grandfather during the years, I don 't and will never doubt you have, but your perceptions are drained with and within the concepts as such de- manded by the society/ culture you live and were raised in. I don 't question these assertions, I just argue that such concepts aren 't yours, in the real sense, in the first place and that thus the ways you raised your children follow historical social/ cultural path with no hope of ever escaping them_ where IMO, I did escape, I laid down ( I had to) my own tracks and just waited where they' re heading, where others got a pretty good idea where theirs are/ were leading to !

    It is hard to come in terms with those ( mythical) ideal cultural/ social raised expectations where (grand)parents seem to be bound to_ to forfill them results in more subtle and psychological violence than we openly are willing to admit. Self- convidence, the belief in oneself has been lost ever before one could develop one....



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