Re: meme as catalytic indexical

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Mon 26 Jan 2004 - 19:14:05 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: meme as catalytic indexical"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Lissack" <>
    > Bruce's third challenge is that there be a simulation
    > model which shows the true emergence of a memetic
    > process
    > Bruce goes on to describe what would be necessary for
    > the simulation to be accepted.
    > Are you rejecting the idea that any such simulation
    can be constructed ? Or that it can be accepted ?

    << No, I don 't reject the idea, I just wanna say that it would be far more difficult to set up such model than Bruce describes. Not only he is chopping populations ( where a memetic process could emerge) into credible ones and non- credi- ble individuals, moreover he argues that their behaviour should
    ( NEED to) be credible in the first place ! That troubles me !

    How credible should that be, what should be the definition, its characteristics !? What is a credible individual_ an intellec- tual or someone working the rice- fields of Cambodia !? The construction of such model/ simulation should at least involve the notion that any third party has its own history/ belief and traits and that those can/ will influence the final result ! What would be a credible model that wants to show a memetic process emerging represented to an Aborginial !?

    Can he be that objective if the model judges situations which occur on our side of the globe_ things of which he has no knowledge !? If he was a credible individual, than his social/ cultural heritage will set in, and will influence the outcome.

    << What is said to be a normal, allday behavioral pattern that others will accept as being really possible !? You have no idea how angry I can get if things don 't go my way, that is for me a ' normal ' pattern ! But would it be accepted as normal, how really possible would it be for others to judge !? How would the simulation bear with it !? That is something I don 't see covered !

    And what is a believable way !? I accept Bruce's his comments and challenges, they need to be, but how I cope with it, and how and why I cling to what is written/ represented can 't be examined by Bruce or any other observer as being believable or not ! I understand the more complex you make the model how uncon- vincing it will be in the end, but it needs to be more than mere abstract ideas.



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