Re: meme as catalytic indexical

From: M Lissack (
Date: Sun 25 Jan 2004 - 20:04:09 GMT

  • Next message: Keith Henson: "Re: drug addiction as meme"


    and what does your note mean?

    Bruce's third challenge is that there be a simulation model which shows the true emergence of a memetic process

    Bruce goes on to describe what would be necessary for the simulation to be accepted.

    Are you rejecting the idea that any such simulation can be constructed? or that it can be accepted?

    or are you trying to preserve the tautology by arguing that third parties have their own cultural histories and if those histories do not include memes then the third parties will not see memes?

    i am having trouble relating your note to Bruce's challenges

    --- Van oost Kenneth <> wrote:
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: M Lissack
    > The micro behaviour of the individuals needs to be
    > credible. That is they need to reflect patterns of
    > behaviour that third parties [note 3] would accept
    > as being really possible. Thus behaviour based on
    > strong a priori assumptions (e.g. utility
    > optimisation) or unmodified off-the-shelf algorithms
    > (e.g. Genetic Algorithms) would not be suitable.
    > << But how would you account for such credibility
    > if whatever third party has its own prejudices
    > to count for in the first place !?
    > No individual life can survive entirely bereft of
    > meaning ( and purpose) and a view that wants to
    > be the very bias for acceptance of a mechanism
    > like memetics can 't simply ignore the
    > nurtured and natural ( selected for or not) traits
    > of the human beings involved ( investigators,
    > performers, participants and perceivers, etc).
    > For memetics to be accepted you need far more than
    > just composed information messages
    > of or within the mind_ memetics is all about human
    > psychology and therefor you need a model
    > of which that is part.
    > Libertarism, like Nozick has formulated it, where
    > hyperliberalism almost equals anarchism
    > and where nothing is far more important than the
    > individual_ must in that regard be part of
    > the model characteristics and also things like
    > cultural/ social ideology, biology, history etc..
    > A buddhist applying memetics for explaining how we
    > reached Zen through maintaining our
    > motorcycle will be quite something else than me
    > applying memetical understandings in
    > my work with allochtons.
    > How any third party can be that objective in their
    > comments, speculation,description,etc
    > without involving the obvious facts of their own
    > world and ideas, beats me....
    > Regards,
    > Kenneth

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