Re: meme as catalytic indexical

From: M Lissack (
Date: Sat 24 Jan 2004 - 17:16:05 GMT

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      It was Bruce who wrote that not I, but I agree with him.  How are you going to demonstrate an "in mind" mechanism?  You can assert that communication happens but what in the world is an in mind mechanism?  In the absence of mechanism how do you distinguish between the meme as replicator and meme as a sign of something else which replicates?  If you have no means of making that distinction then the assertion that meme is a replicator is just that naked assertion -- untestable and merely tautological.  Bruce's challenges are about how memetics can progress from being regarded as tautology.
      For those on the list who are happy to reside within a circle of tautological belief then my article is an annoyance.  For those who wish to have the field of memetics be regarded as something over and above belief Bruce's challenges remain to be answered.
      But, Kenneth is the first person on the list to at least suggest that he has a problem with Bruce's challenges rather than merely reciting the "memetic catechism"over and over again.

    Van oost Kenneth <> wrote:
    ----- Original Message ----- From: M Lissack Bruce's 3 Challenges

    Challenge 1: A conclusive case study

    The purpose of this is to clearly demonstrate that there is at least one cultural process that is of an evolutionary nature, where `evolutionary' is taken in a narrow sense. This needs to be robust against serious criticism. In my opinion this needs to achieve the following as a minimum.

    Exhibit a replicator mechanism - this needs to be something physical and not in the mind.


    That some list- members have problems with your article has far more to do with

    what is written above ! That memetics is seen as a replicative mechanism is far

    beyond doubt, but for most it is process of and within the mind.

    That now, you suggest that the replicator mechanism ( of memes) is not in the

    mind is something that some won 't strive upon.

    Something to consider !?






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