Re: meme as catalytic indexical

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sat 24 Jan 2004 - 16:04:03 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: meme as catalytic indexical"

    ----- Original Message ----- Keith Henson,
    > But I think you are right, war has been part of human behavior for a
    > time. War is killing and to kill there has to be people. Humans have
    > about twice the reproductive capacity of chimps because of male
    > provisioning of females and young. Thus you would expect that for the
    > sized tribes there would be twice as many humans killed per unit time as
    > chimps.


    You seem IMO to forget the notion of human- man- psychology in this matter, though ! That war is part, has been and will be part of human nature, is part of my conception, but modern warfare has turned this view upside down. War has been rationalized and has thus been demoralized. The moral implications of courage diseappered, and so thus the concept of the hero and thus the model for the manly projection. This peals for the total defeatism of what is seen as manhood_ history today shows how unbearable some cultures can cope with the destruc- tion of these symbols.

    Michelet, for one, argues about the dispair of people living in a bureaucracy, without the imaginable possibility for showing courage, which in the end serves as the bias for all other moral qualities and characteristics. For the man is that part no longer an option. That takes away a crucial motor for the male development. What is ' cool ' or what stood for ' dandy ' in the 19 th. century is the echo of the destruction of the heroic part.
    ' Cool ' and ' dandy ' are both mourning processes . They attend to be the confusion of manhood.

    That you argue that most wars are biased within an economic background is your prerogative, but taking Robert Nozick ' Anarchy, State and Utopia at hand and we see a complete different picture. That his discription of the US sounds like a ' dominant protective association ' are his words and that the US is no more and no less just another ' firm ' that will protect its own interests and those of its clients, I hear you say, so what !? It is economy after all !

    It is, but all for the other reasons that you in your articles de- fend ! There is no tribe defending its capital per unit human being, there is just a selfish gated community, grounded for its own national security. That ideas like democracy, freedom and capitalism are part of the pre- emptive strike is good for the troops and for the moral but it is NOT what you suggest what is the / a reason for war(s) !!

    There is no economic ideology behind this at all, moreover a lack of it seems more appropiate, only the national security counts. That earlier all other countries were potential ' clients ' of the firm US ( better would be concurrents) today it seem that eachother can be an ennemy of what stands for American values. Frankly, it is damn hard dangerous to count us in as rogue states.

    That the US operates in this matter for its own interests and for those of its clients, I can per unit human being will drop and wars between clients are a possibility....but that the US starts wars just as were protection a simply economic product that can be trade over, is far more beside the points you talk about in your articles. War is a cynical economic product of a state misusing its power. The historical explanation about how wars starts is a dead monkey...



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