From: Lawrence DeBivort (email@example.com)
Date: Fri 21 Nov 2003 - 15:08:45 GMT
I understand you to be saying that we had better not think of memes as being
inside the head because then we can't study them.
But we can: we can quite adequately (for now, at least) study the 'memes in
the head' through the linguistic manifestation of those ideas. We can do so
actively, as well as passively. (Of course, we have to have some
understanding of linguistics in order to do so. So perhaps if one is trained
in and interested in biology and neurology this approach is unattractive.)
An analogy may be the study of sub atomic particles with bubble chambers: we
see the traces of the particles; we don't see the particles themselves.
We know that the 'memes-in-the-head'/linguistic approach works, for this
approach is the bedrock upon which our memetic research is being done today,
successfully, and has already yielded important and applied results. We do
not, by common consent, discuss this here, but it is happening.
1998 is right! Back then, I sort of gave up on the mainstream memetic
discussions -- it seemed bogged down in approaches that weren't going to
yield solid and interesting results. So in terms of the memetic 'community'
I have been, quite happily, only on the edges, listening and learning, and
hoping that some day a 'space' might emerge in which it was appropriate to
discuss our work.
I say this, I suppose, as much 'for the record' as for any other reason.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf
> Of derek gatherer
> Sent: Fri, November 21, 2003 4:11 AM
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: Re: Is there any meme left to talk about !?
> Yes, but wrongly. Geertz was a pioneer (the paper you
> cite is from 1964) of the ideational theory of culture
> - ie. the notion that culture exists inside people's
> heads, and that artefacts and behaviours etc are
> epiphenomenal in some way. The descendent of this
> school in memetics are the 'internalists' who maintain
> that memes are all in the head too. There are
> numerous philosophical problems with this of varying
> degrees of severity, but most importantly it puts
> memetics in a methodological impasse, as internalism
> requires memetics to be a quantitative science of
> entities that cannot be quantified.
> Gosh, it's been ages since I've been able to post on
> this subject. Feels like 1998 all over again!!
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