Date: Tue 09 Sep 2003 - 18:42:46 GMT
From: Vincent Campbell <VCampbell@dmu.ac.uk>
<email@example.com> Subject: RE: I find it sad yet hilarious... Date sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:05:54 +0100 Send reply to: firstname.lastname@example.org
> <Those that advocate the annihilation of personal individual
> freedoms (of thought and action) are objectively inferior,
> existentially speaking, to those which promote > the perpetuation of
> such freedoms. For this reason, although they may > not be as hooking
> in such instances (see Hoffer's THE TRUE > BELIEVER and Fromm's ESCAPE
> FROM FREEDOM), memes that > ambrace personal diversity and free
> inquiry are ethically and > existentially superior (for those who must
> live within their purview) to > memes that endeavor to eliminate
> same.> > I will probably surprise you by agreeing with this totally.
> Secular rationalism, and democratic consent are inherently preferable,
> and superior to religious fundamentalism and totalitarianism.
> The problem for me is what is the most appropriate method for
> libertarians to deal with authoritarians? Is it only by shock and
> awe? Does that not fundamentally diminish our claims to freedom and
> virtue in that we can only defeat those ideologically opposed to us by
> force? We may win, but winning through force doesn't make us right.
> Indeed, one (of the many) fatal flaw with your position Joe, is that
> in identifying islamic fundamentalism as a dangerous memeplex you
> ignore that fact that memes cannot be defeated by guns- they are
> ideas, ideologies, concepts, and some would say beliefs, that can
> persist even when all of its original adherents are dead.
> Christianity didn't die on the cross, nazism didn't die in hitler's
> bunker, and islamic fundamentalism won't die with the killing of bin
> laden. Memes can only be "fought" with other memes, and the memeplex
> of democracy is not well delivered or well received by people in full
> combat armour carrying automatic weapons.
> Democracy's fundamental strength is its reliance on power through
> consent, which in turn means memetic power- by making people at the
> very least feel part of the power process through allowing them space
> to "have their say" (or engage in meme propagation and contestation,
The problem with only memetically dealing with a virulent memetic mutation that advocates, and even demands, the murder of nonadherents, such as Al Quaeda (a Wahhab/Qutub mutation of Islam) is that it is, when its principles are practiced, populated by 'holy' murderers, who are committed to and believe that they have divine license and command to continue to practice their version of jihad, that is, to murder all nonadherents, as a holy duty, as long as they or the nonadherents live. Just as the Indian Thuggees (a murderous mutation of the Kali cult, where strangulation - murder without shedding blood - was considered to be a sacramental offering to the Dark Goddess) had to be eliminated, over a course of some 50 years, as a simple matter of self-defence for all the non-Thuggees, the adherents of the Al Quaeda mutation must be eliminated in order to protect the lives of all non-Al-Quaedans. Of course the memetic battle must be waged, but the physical battle must be waged, also, as the failure of non-Al- Quaedans to do so is converted into a memetic selling point by the Al Quaedans - and then they convert/recruit more murderers. If one side is willing to kill you if you don't join them and become a murderer and the other side is not willing to kill you if you do so, you preserve your own life by joining the killers. It will not be a short or easy process, but it is one that must be undergone, pursued and won, on ALL fronts, for the sake of civilization, freedom, human rights, democracy and diversity.
> > =============================================================== This
> > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
> > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
> > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
> > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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