From: Lawrence DeBivort (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue 09 Sep 2003 - 03:25:09 GMT
A couple of questions, Scott:
What is "hypnopedia"?
And, how are you defining "social engineering"?
I read Brave New World several decades ago -- that and 1984, what
harbingers. Lord of the Flies, too, I suppose.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf
> Of Scott Chase
> Sent: Mon, September 08, 2003 7:44 PM
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: RE: I find it sad yet hilarious...
> >From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >Reply-To: email@example.com
> >To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >Subject: RE: I find it sad yet hilarious...
> >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:14:22 -0400
> >To Jeff Drabble and Brent Scofield,
> >Welcome to the list. We are usually better than you see us these
> last days.
> >The list is focused on memes as natural evolutionary actors, and there is
> >close attention to the biology of genes and their (metaphorical)
> analogy to
> >memes. There are several people on this list who have done solid and
> >seminal work on these questions. There has also been considerable
> >discussion of the taxonomy of memes and various types of memes.
> >Memetic engineering has attracted less attention, and there is a general
> >feeling that it isn't possible to engineer memes, or if it is, that it is
> >nothing more than what advertisers already do.
> I'm in the group that's critical of memetic engineeering, just as
> I'm a wee
> bit cautious of social engineering, especially as social engineering may
> overlap with memetic and/or genetic engineering for the aspiring
> Read Julian Huxley's sibling Aldous's book _Brave New World_ for
> a seminal
> work on what could result when caste oriented cloning and behavioral
> conditioning overlap. Ironic that _Brave New World_ was penned by the
> grandson of "Darwin's bulldog" and the brother of a crafter of the "New
> Synthesis". One can only wonder how much of Julian's work in embryology
> influenced Aldous's thinking when writing his famous dystopian book.
> Hypnopedia anyone? And how far off would hypnopedia be from NLP
> or memetic
> >My own personal view is that memetic engineering is possible,
> and that it
> >more than what advertisers do, but that this list, for reasons
> that you can
> >anticipate from the caliber of the discussions you have
> witnessed here, not
> >the place to do so.
> A very teensy weensy minority of us are actually *critical* or
> of memetics as a science *and* a tool for social engineering
> We wouldn't want newbies exposed to that sort of low caliber thinking now
> would we?
> As for Dees's obligatory dwelling on the Middle East, don't
> respond to him.
> I haven't. How many K are taken up by responses versus the posts
> the responses.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: email@example.com
> [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf
> > > Of Jeff Drabble
> > > Sent: Mon, September 08, 2003 6:22 PM
> > > To: email@example.com
> > > Subject: Re: I find it sad yet hilarious...
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:32:57 -0700, you:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I joined this mailing list about a week ago, hoping to first
> listen in
> > > >and then eventually join in discussions surrounding the concept
> > > of memes and
> > > >the development on memetics. My problem with your posts is not
> > > the politics
> > > >of them, but the vague and undeveloped ways in which you relate your
> > > >interpretation of current issues to memetics. You do use words like
> > > >"memebot" and "memeplex" in some of your posts, and while I think new
> > > >vocabulary is super-fun, I also think you should at very least spend
> > > >time with each of your posts relating what makes it relevant to
> > > this mailing
> > > >list. The concept that ideas spread is not new to memetics, and if
> > > >post every article which contains in it something about the
> spread of a
> > > >particular idea or the development of an idea, or the definition
> > > of an idea,
> > > >etc., then this list will be innundated with links to articles
> > > and peices of
> > > >articles.
> > >
> > > I also subscribed about a week ago and was about to unsubscribe for
> > > these very reasons. I often look forward to a television show coming
> > > that purports to further our understanding of some scientific issue
> > > and am usually very disappointed by the hollow, surface-scratching,
> > > results-rather-than-causes presentations which emerge (doesn't stop me
> > > watching in hope for the odd gem, though).
> > >
> > > As I started to read what was posted to this list I was rapidly
> > > getting the feeling that the same thing was happening here. I'll now
> > > stay a little longer to see what emerges. So far, people just seem to
> > > be taking positions, which, to me, is as far as you can get from
> > > scientific discovery and the propagation of ideas from the results of
> > > that discovery.
> > >
> > > There should be a lot more questions and fewer people who are adamant
> > > that their take is the real deal. In my experience finding the answer
> > > to a question opens up ten more, equally perplexing and interesting
> > > questions. Those who just dish out the "answers" are as close-minded
> > > as those who grasp at religion to steady their anxiety about the world
> > > and their place in it.
> > >
> > > Jeff Drabble
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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